Importance of AOE snare in solo tanking.

[Gerv]

Simple and clear, do you BO players believe that if the AoE snare was adjusted to have a 50% up-time and still hit the 9 targets, along with the snares/staggers/roots avalible from other dps nad healer classes, be able to continue to Solo tank 3-2-1 groups?

[ragafury]

The root has a very small range so basically you already need to have closed the distance. (30 units, with latency etc, 50% chance to be broken by dmg, not the most reliable skill for moving targets in a chase)

Vs small organized grps it's already hard enough to keep the snare up. Basically if you get staggered you are done and if you get slowed a 2nd time you are done.

In addition BO punt is so small and shitty that seperating the guard from the guarded target is most of the time not possible. So if you take any utility from the slow, the punt needs a massive buff.

I think bo is in the middle of the pack from a tank pov. Ofc he is dangerous because he is more offensive than the other tanks. But on the other hand which class shall help with aoe snaring? The chop fasta dispenser I'm guarding? Not much snare on that lad...

I think if a change comes in that direction, I would reroll another class because chosen is more tanky and bg has crimson death. So not much use in playing a bo from a setup and supportive pov. Ofc there is still skull thumper and ap reg, but it's not really worth it to play a class that for.

And ppl are always free to invest there rr in cc immunity. If they don't do it: there mistake.


May I ask why, why you ask this question?

[lilsabin]

balance issue incoming , yeahhhh

[Daknallbomb]

Hm i stopped to play aoe snare guard bot and changed to kd. In my feeling its First more fun and second still effektiv for the grp. Talking about scs here. In orvr well no aoe snare would be very crazy

[roadkillrobin]

BO snare is the only ballanced AoE snare on Destro side. It rquires a tactic slot 7 points into a mediocre Mastery tree. It requires a specific stance to use. Costs ALOT of AP and very low range. Its the main reason you bring a BO to a group and it has extremly low up-time allready and if removed/reduced, needs to be compensated really hard in other ways.

Also theres no such thing as fixed group compositions like 2-2-2 or 3-2-1. Thers shitloads of archetype compositions that can be made. The 2-2-2 and 3-2-1 (3 dps, 2 healers 1 tank) are nothing but a favored meta composition and every possible archetype distrubution is possible without archetype/role restrictions. So if ballance discussions should be made out from these compositions you kinda need to force those compositions aswell.

[Dabbart]

Depends how the 50% uptime worked. How would the skill be changed? By adding a CD to Big Swing? Would you keep the 5s snare, or would the time on the snare be altered? If so, would the AP cost be altered? Any of the other parts of the ability changed? CT increaser altered, number of targets hit, toughness debuff amount and timer,

Honestly, I already dislike 3/2/1 tanking on my BO. Even in derp defense spec, w/o that AoE snare we'd get entirely rolled. The snare is the only thing that stops order from running right by me. I'm snared 100% of the time, if they aren't we all die. I ignore other classes kiting usage, since we are discussing BOs. Group comp for 3/2/1 meta is a different discussion all together.

Is Big Swing perceived OP? I love the ability, but 5s CD means I have to spam it every 3 GcDs, which A rapes my AP at 50ap per cast, B. severly limits my attack rotation. B is the most important. If you are ensuring that the snare is up 100% of the time, you are sacrificing a LOT of GcDs on simply that.

Changing Big Swing to any kind of a CD, or snare reduction would basically lead to it being incredibly rarely used imo, which in turn(to answer the OP question), lead to BOs being the lowest tank on the totem pole for 3/2/1s. Especially after the DP changes on BG.

[Collateral]

I agree with everything said before me. Like Robin said, it's a tactic that doesn't come very cheap, and the ability itself is not very cheap AP wise. And as Dabbart said, order has enough CC that putting a cd or some other limit on this ability would pretty much seal the fate of destro forming decent kite groups, which is already not the preferred way of playing a destro group anyway, be it because of the classes or the 'lore' and feel about the realm.

My perception on CC in this game is that there is a lot of work to be done to it. The perma snares and staggers etc. are so annoying you might as well reduce everyone's run speed to 40% and remove the damn CCs. But that's another topic.

[roadkillrobin]

Theres also the option to remove every single non morale AoE snare from the game and buff the roots slightly by removing the root immunity on roots that can break on dmg, aswell as remake a couple of abillties/tactics that used to AoE snare.

[TenTonHammer]

Lets not pretend that big brawlin is not broken in that it outclasses other snares on destro.

the ap cost is not a legitimate argument considering just how many ways there is to get ap in this game it's a 30 ft unclenseable snare with basically a 100% uptime that basically ruined the viability of running an order melee train due to perma snare

Stance is not an issue with change da plan

As it currently stands big brawlin is just too effective

[Danielle]

The most powerful snare in the game is on KotBS. There's nothing necessarily OP about these snares (well the BO one spams out stat debuffs like mad and cannot be cleansed but eh) effects in themselves. I would just say make Wave of Scorn/Earthshatter a 10s or 15s cd on BG/IB it will still be a weaker snare than the best AoE snares in the game (Knight/BOrc), but it will mean BG/IB have a group utility. It should make more tank combos viable once WP is back in the meta (if ever), because BG/IB will still bring some stuff of their own and there's nothing wrong with some redundancy when it's in areas of must have utility. Fact of life atm is Knight must be ran on Order, both BOrc/Chosen must be ran on Destro. I also think SM is a must have, but I would understand if there'r some reasonable disagreement about that.

I feel like I made the case for the BOrc snare too strong in my previous posts, there's many more reasons to actually run a BORc anyway (bugged morale generation tactic, multiple stat debuffs of all kinds, good damage), I just felt like the snare was the trigger for the multiple stat debuffs and buffs for your party and the thing that made destro trains be able to keep up with Order comps using a Knight, making it the most important factor from these.

Overall I feel like if BG has an AoE snare with a good cd it would *possibly* make BO replaceable. In the same way a Chosen could be *possibly* replaceable if WP is back in the meta able to cleanse Crippling Strikes. Which is pretty much where I would like to see balance (In a space where you can happily run any of the 3 tank classes in a combo, knowing they provide you with some good specific utility, depending on which ones you choose to run).

Another thing that has to be taken into account is that Big Brawlin' is more important because Covenant of Celerity on DoK is out of the meta. One nerf I could see for all the AoE snares is to make them debuff type that is cleansable with corresponding AoE cleanses.