[Black Orc] Talk bout da builds ere.

[footpatrol2]

So I run double black orcs in almost all of my group comps. My viewpoints are different then most of the community so...be warned. I run greenskin group comps predominately. The way I spec is for access. I don't use everything at all times. I spec to have access if the situation calls for it. I'm constantly switching tactic's/gear/bellows.

For a very long time I have been running 15 point boss spec or at the minimum 13 point for the waaagh ability. Why? I want the increased armor and resists from the greenest below. Boss spec is extremely good at triggering belows and triggering the stat steal. The 2nd BO is usually cookie cutter Brawler to max out the stat steals.

I want the full 120 weaponskill buff for my mdps. I want the full 120 strength debuff on the enemy assist train. I want it guaranteed and not reliant on a lucky stat steal. Since I'm not running a chosen I need those strength debuff's and weaponskill buff's. I want the 990 armor buff for my group. I want the 378 resist buff for my group which is just as good as a full 15 point discord chosen resist buff. I want the max 378 corp debuff so the skull thumper's hit at full value and when we run stabby squig's which is often he hits harder.

I am constantly switching bellows depending on the situation of the fight. If we are pushing I am stat steal. If we are retreating I switch to greenest. Sometimes both BO's are switching bellows collectively depending on the situation. We both switch to stat steal on a push. We both switch to greenest on a retreat. Even the brawler BO goes Greenest if we are seriously gettin pushed. Sometimes we stagger it.

You got nuffin is a decent tactic actually. It is passively healing for your entire group. That is still a heal. I've out healed dps healer's before with that tactic on. I've ran groups with two BO's with you got nuffin tactic's on. It increases the entire groups durability. I only really run it when I am geared to tank and not hybrid. It is a good tactic for ORvR.

No choppin me is also a decent tactic but very situational. You need to be running a melee train as in two mdps. If your not then its kinda not worth the slot. Your providing 4 classes two tanks and two mdps with 120 weaponskill buff.

[Collateral]

Your viewpoints are not really different, at least for me. I've been thinking about a 3-3 group for a long time. With 3 doks (one melee), 2 bos and a chosen. We did it once but with 2 chosens. It can be incredibly tanky and do some serious damage, especially with 2 bos. And what your group has is pretty much how I would run it, no seconds thoughts about that. One bo is full dps brawler, other is CC bot with snare and maybe KD, although preferably the brawler bo would take KD (since chosen has it also), so that boss bo can take nidf as well for some big preasure on healers when you rotate it. If healers don't cleanse immediately you can basically have 100% uptime on it. One thing about our group was morale pump for all tanks, so we were basically bombing when bo reached m3. I'm not sure if it would be worth it now though. The healing tactic might also help out for nore tankiness if it's as decent as you say.

[footpatrol2]

Here is something we've been using for a long time with double BO's. Staggered walk it off's m2's. If you stagger your walk it off it provides a constant 160 toughness buff for the group. This stacks with do sumthin useful as it should with the shaman. Ability + morale + tactic's all stacks. That is 160 + 240 = 400 toughness buff for the entire group. A BO chosen tank combo can't do that. You can have a relatively glass cannon mdps running around with 100 + 400 = 500 to 600 toughness depending on how glass mdps is.

In addition when we were having to survive the engie crazyness you can stagger quit yer squiblin m1's as a constant 10% dodge parry buff. That helps both tanks mitigate guard damage more and gets your mdps classes a additional 10% parry. The dodge is always helpful also. A BO chosen tank combo can't do that.

As you mentioned a double BO combo can also provide assisting morale bomb damage. Two BO's poping deafening bellow m3's is AE 2400 damage. A BO chosen Tank combo can't do that. 2400 AE morale damage isn't great in itself but we also like to run Stabby squig herder's with wind up da waaagh m4 in a double morale pump shaman group. Thats a total of 1200 + 1200 + 2400 + 2400 AE morale damage. So... thats a total of 7200 morale bomb with only using 4 classes. This group comp is also able to constantly upkeep bad gas. The synergy of a Boss BO with Stabby SH's is really good also. AE snare + disorient + bad gas and tons of big bouncin + additional armor from greenest to stabby SH's is a pain. Its a very nasty combo but really only good for zerg busting at these dirty slow morale gain rates. If the rates were correct the group would do better.

With double BO's you have option's to coordinate with the other BO to adjust to the situation that is at hand by controlling how you use your morale's as a team. Merbay everyone know's these tricks. I've seen player's write that two BO's as a tank combo is bad... but its not.

[Collateral]

What do you mean by 'staggering' morales? Also bo and chosen can have 400 toughness buff if choswn runs aura (which he should) and bo has stat steal (which he should). But I agree, double bo is not as bad as people might think, but it's rarely used. Edit: nvm chosen and bo can't buff 400 toughness, I mixed up chosebs resist buff with toughness buff As far as morales go, I just use armour debuff or chch for m1, or if I have opportunity ID m4. I don't see premades running with defensive m2 on bo. Rotating armour debuff that stacks with abilities is more worth it imo. But yes if you're fighting the zerg it could be useful.

[footpatrol2]

Staggering or cycling. Just like you cycle challenge shout.
The duration of walk it off is 30 sec's with a 1 minute cooldown. First tank pop's Walk's it off early in the fight if you have enough pressure put on your group. Sometimes you don't have the time to wait for ID even with morale pumps. 2nd tank waits 30 sec's and dependant on situation pop's walk it off to maintain the constant 160 toughness buff. Shaman's are constantly applying do sumfin usefull for the additional 240 toughness buff for the total of 400 toughness on your frontline.

For armor debuff I got the 990 armor debuff plus 10% armor pen on my defensive target (dps) from follow my lead from max 120 weaponskill buff. Dps is runnin somethin like 60% to 80% armor pen with buff, so... is a double tap of armor debuff really needed? maybe? maybe not.

Lets say you got 4k armor on a squishy. Armor debuff takes squishy to 3k armor. dps armor pen is 60/80% so that takes it down too 1200/600 armor ish? Is it really worth it to double tap down that armor even more? Guess it depends on the target/situation. I prefer a reliable toughness buff in most situations but I can see why you use it. Everything imo is situational. Walk it off in some ways is superior to ID because it is a constant buff. ID is a clutch save and takes time to get too. Walk it off can be poped early in the fight and is always useful. Pro's/Con's. Sometime's I'll have ID and I'll pop walk it off instead If I think the fight will be drawn out.

[Collateral]

Yea I understand you. But since I'm usually the only bo in the party I don't see much use in additional 160 toughness since your biggest steals 120 at max lvl, which is pretty close and you have 100% uptime (although morales stack with abilities so I get your point). And for armour debuff, when fighting good groups with good healers and tanks, burst is the name of the game. So with double debuff and armour pen your damage is considerably increased. I would love to do a GS party one day.

[Dreadspectre]

2 Stat steal bellows stack even in the same group? Doesn't the Brawler stat steal just override since its the stronger one?

[Penril]

You got nuffin = waste of a tactic slot, specially considering that BOs have several other great tactis. If you need that extra healing from YGN, you should get new healers.

[Collateral]

2 Stat steal bellows stack even in the same group? Doesn't the Brawler stat steal just override since its the stronger one?

No they don't stack. The stronger one applies the buffs.

[Dreadspectre]

2 Stat steal bellows stack even in the same group? Doesn't the Brawler stat steal just override since its the stronger one?

No they don't stack. The stronger one applies the buffs.

Then why in this 2 BO setup does the non brawler BO talk about switching to Stat steal bellow? What would be the point? O.o