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[FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#141 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:28 pm

Fanaticseb wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:51 am
Cultist wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:55 am @Kpi you obvioiusly don't know what you are talking about.

No software can replicate all what NB was capable of. Please stop.
Which is wrong.
proof it. I don't believe you can do everything NB could do using a 3rd party macro tool.
I believe you, if you can make a reliable macro that checks if there are 3 stacks of broadhead arrow applied on my enemy target and refreshes the dot when the timer is 2 seconds before running out.

Good luck recognizing if your target defended an attack...
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ChicagoJoe
Posts: 254

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#142 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:17 pm

saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:20 pm
Kpi wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:21 pm
saupreusse wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:01 pm

Since you insist that its possible to do a conditional check on ingame spells you should be able to tell me the name of this magical software.
Macro Scheduler
i checked it out and while its quite a powerful macroing tool and even has an image checker its nowhere near what you can do with a conditional thats hooked up to the war api. So your point is busted.
Don't get me wrong, this macro software can do a lot but in the end its just a macroing tool and if you ever get hard cc on you it will break your sequence because your timers will get **** up. you can't do anything in the realms of NB with it.
Edit: in case of hard cc you could actually use the image checker to look for the CC icon of the CCTV addon and pause whenever its applied on you in order to safe your sequence from breaking, which is nice - but not NB kind of nice
Hey, I appreciate that you don't want a sequencing tool that has conditionals for all, and that you are sure that nobody can use macros to get similar or better results. Yeah that kinda sounds elitist so if I am misstating your position please correct me. I think the unintended consequences of the removal of NB could be severe.

1. People leaving
2. People playing only the simplest classes and/or never trying new ones
3. People find alternatives that give a few an upper hand.

Maybe there is another category.

Tools like the Macro Scheduler above absolutely can be used for targeting the weakest on the screen. To kill, to heal. If you don't think people are already using things like that you are nuts. That is 10,000 times worse than conditionals. In actuality conditions are really abused in concert with a tool like that, otherwise you are limited to your current target not the most impactful target.

Continuing the support of the NB removal will open a Pandora's box of people learning about alternative ways to make a game easier, and creates an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots. I would really appreciate people rethinking their position, from both sides.

For example I was against cross realming initially but when destro leaders came into order wbs years ago things eventually got more real when talking about class imbalance. The current flow is some order leaders (like FOW) going to destro.

I think this game currently has some player base issues, and removal of NB isn't helping it. NB comes back or the game dies on the vine. Just look at the number of city instances the last few weeks.
primary IB 8X, EN8X, WP7X, SL7X, KOTBS6X, and a bunch of under rr60 toons on order and destro with other classes.

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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#143 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:40 pm

ChicagoJoe wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:17 pm
saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:20 pm
Kpi wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:21 pm

Macro Scheduler
i checked it out and while its quite a powerful macroing tool and even has an image checker its nowhere near what you can do with a conditional thats hooked up to the war api. So your point is busted.
Don't get me wrong, this macro software can do a lot but in the end its just a macroing tool and if you ever get hard cc on you it will break your sequence because your timers will get **** up. you can't do anything in the realms of NB with it.
Edit: in case of hard cc you could actually use the image checker to look for the CC icon of the CCTV addon and pause whenever its applied on you in order to safe your sequence from breaking, which is nice - but not NB kind of nice
Hey, I appreciate that you don't want a sequencing tool that has conditionals for all, and that you are sure that nobody can use macros to get similar or better results. Yeah that kinda sounds elitist so if I am misstating your position please correct me. I think the unintended consequences of the removal of NB could be severe.

1. People leaving
2. People playing only the simplest classes and/or never trying new ones
3. People find alternatives that give a few an upper hand.

Maybe there is another category.

Tools like the Macro Scheduler above absolutely can be used for targeting the weakest on the screen. To kill, to heal. If you don't think people are already using things like that you are nuts. That is 10,000 times worse than conditionals. In actuality conditions are really abused in concert with a tool like that, otherwise you are limited to your current target not the most impactful target.

Continuing the support of the NB removal will open a Pandora's box of people learning about alternative ways to make a game easier, and creates an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots. I would really appreciate people rethinking their position, from both sides.

For example I was against cross realming initially but when destro leaders came into order wbs years ago things eventually got more real when talking about class imbalance. The current flow is some order leaders (like FOW) going to destro.

I think this game currently has some player base issues, and removal of NB isn't helping it. NB comes back or the game dies on the vine. Just look at the number of city instances the last few weeks.
Im all for sequencing. and i hope the new sequencer sulle released will be equal to NB without conditional checks. I just can't stand people playing down the possibilities of nb conditional checks so they can get it back without any changes whatsoever. Its fake news and as things stand atm, no one has ever showed me how a macroing tool would do all the cool things people claim they can (like targeting the enemy on the screen with the lowest health - these things are absolutely and 100% impossible without using some kind of interface like the WAR API, and as far as Im concerned only Game Addons can do this).
Without anyone proofing all these absurd claims I just have to call them bullsh*t... sry but it is what it is.
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pagimanRalla10
Posts: 7

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#144 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:12 pm

I have now tested the addon on several of my characters. It's just no good. Too often the sequences get stuck and bring more frustration than pleasure.

If you have had NB for almost 10 years and then have to fall back on such a bad addon then you feel like in the Middle Ages and the beginning of MMOs ...

The only thing that the removal of NB has done is the fact that the number of players has already decreased by more than a third and my favorite Szeanrio Ranked Solo is almost dead.
My conclusion brings the fastest in order otherwise I will see even fewer people on the server in the future and with the appearance of the new games that are coming soon, the population will move towards 0 in a year.

You should have devoted yourselves to other things than to an add-on that almost everyone used.

It's a shame about the nice game though.

abazaba
Posts: 13

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#145 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:16 pm

Spoiler:
saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:40 pm
ChicagoJoe wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:17 pm
saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:20 pm

i checked it out and while its quite a powerful macroing tool and even has an image checker its nowhere near what you can do with a conditional thats hooked up to the war api. So your point is busted.
Don't get me wrong, this macro software can do a lot but in the end its just a macroing tool and if you ever get hard cc on you it will break your sequence because your timers will get **** up. you can't do anything in the realms of NB with it.
Edit: in case of hard cc you could actually use the image checker to look for the CC icon of the CCTV addon and pause whenever its applied on you in order to safe your sequence from breaking, which is nice - but not NB kind of nice
Hey, I appreciate that you don't want a sequencing tool that has conditionals for all, and that you are sure that nobody can use macros to get similar or better results. Yeah that kinda sounds elitist so if I am misstating your position please correct me. I think the unintended consequences of the removal of NB could be severe.

1. People leaving
2. People playing only the simplest classes and/or never trying new ones
3. People find alternatives that give a few an upper hand.

Maybe there is another category.

Tools like the Macro Scheduler above absolutely can be used for targeting the weakest on the screen. To kill, to heal. If you don't think people are already using things like that you are nuts. That is 10,000 times worse than conditionals. In actuality conditions are really abused in concert with a tool like that, otherwise you are limited to your current target not the most impactful target.

Continuing the support of the NB removal will open a Pandora's box of people learning about alternative ways to make a game easier, and creates an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots. I would really appreciate people rethinking their position, from both sides.

For example I was against cross realming initially but when destro leaders came into order wbs years ago things eventually got more real when talking about class imbalance. The current flow is some order leaders (like FOW) going to destro.

I think this game currently has some player base issues, and removal of NB isn't helping it. NB comes back or the game dies on the vine. Just look at the number of city instances the last few weeks.
Im all for sequencing. and i hope the new sequencer sulle released will be equal to NB without conditional checks. I just can't stand people playing down the possibilities of nb conditional checks so they can get it back without any changes whatsoever. Its fake news and as things stand atm, no one has ever showed me how a macroing tool would do all the cool things people claim they can (like targeting the enemy on the screen with the lowest health - these things are absolutely and 100% impossible without using some kind of interface like the WAR API, and as far as Im concerned only Game Addons can do this).
Without anyone proofing all these absurd claims I just have to call them bullsh*t... sry but it is what it is.
The sequencer should aim to cover enough of the player's needs that they don't go looking for 3rd party solutions.
If not, it becomes a matter of time before more sophisticated scripts surface, emulating NB to full extent and readily available to the masses.
Yes, color detection is extremely simple and could be used to emulate conditional checks, as could a log parser with a companion addon feeding any info you'd need to the relevant program. The data output and manipulation by 3rd party programs isn't the issue, its quelling the vast majority of player's want for filling that void NB left.

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Kpi
Posts: 517

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#146 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:20 pm

saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:40 pm
ChicagoJoe wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:17 pm
saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:20 pm

i checked it out and while its quite a powerful macroing tool and even has an image checker its nowhere near what you can do with a conditional thats hooked up to the war api. So your point is busted.
Don't get me wrong, this macro software can do a lot but in the end its just a macroing tool and if you ever get hard cc on you it will break your sequence because your timers will get **** up. you can't do anything in the realms of NB with it.
Edit: in case of hard cc you could actually use the image checker to look for the CC icon of the CCTV addon and pause whenever its applied on you in order to safe your sequence from breaking, which is nice - but not NB kind of nice
Hey, I appreciate that you don't want a sequencing tool that has conditionals for all, and that you are sure that nobody can use macros to get similar or better results. Yeah that kinda sounds elitist so if I am misstating your position please correct me. I think the unintended consequences of the removal of NB could be severe.

1. People leaving
2. People playing only the simplest classes and/or never trying new ones
3. People find alternatives that give a few an upper hand.

Maybe there is another category.

Tools like the Macro Scheduler above absolutely can be used for targeting the weakest on the screen. To kill, to heal. If you don't think people are already using things like that you are nuts. That is 10,000 times worse than conditionals. In actuality conditions are really abused in concert with a tool like that, otherwise you are limited to your current target not the most impactful target.

Continuing the support of the NB removal will open a Pandora's box of people learning about alternative ways to make a game easier, and creates an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots. I would really appreciate people rethinking their position, from both sides.

For example I was against cross realming initially but when destro leaders came into order wbs years ago things eventually got more real when talking about class imbalance. The current flow is some order leaders (like FOW) going to destro.

I think this game currently has some player base issues, and removal of NB isn't helping it. NB comes back or the game dies on the vine. Just look at the number of city instances the last few weeks.
Im all for sequencing. and i hope the new sequencer sulle released will be equal to NB without conditional checks. I just can't stand people playing down the possibilities of nb conditional checks so they can get it back without any changes whatsoever. Its fake news and as things stand atm, no one has ever showed me how a macroing tool would do all the cool things people claim they can (like targeting the enemy on the screen with the lowest health - these things are absolutely and 100% impossible without using some kind of interface like the WAR API, and as far as Im concerned only Game Addons can do this).
Without anyone proofing all these absurd claims I just have to call them bullsh*t... sry but it is what it is.
I don't use those macros, but in case I used them I couldn't show them because I would be banned for using automatic progams. So we can't help to develops with this. We only are talking about this is possible to do it

BTW, only 374 players of tier 2 are login at this moment... the lost of players is here and now. Maybe for summer, maybe for destro nerf, maybe for NB nerf or maybe for all of this
Spoiler:
Kpihuss -- WP 88
Kpithrogrim -- IB 83
Kpigaragrim -- Slayer 81
Kpikossar -- SW 77
Kpirmedes -- RP 68+
Kpiboris -- KOTBS 65+

User avatar
ChicagoJoe
Posts: 254

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#147 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:43 pm

saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:40 pm
ChicagoJoe wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:17 pm
saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:20 pm

i checked it out and while its quite a powerful macroing tool and even has an image checker its nowhere near what you can do with a conditional thats hooked up to the war api. So your point is busted.
Don't get me wrong, this macro software can do a lot but in the end its just a macroing tool and if you ever get hard cc on you it will break your sequence because your timers will get **** up. you can't do anything in the realms of NB with it.
Edit: in case of hard cc you could actually use the image checker to look for the CC icon of the CCTV addon and pause whenever its applied on you in order to safe your sequence from breaking, which is nice - but not NB kind of nice
Hey, I appreciate that you don't want a sequencing tool that has conditionals for all, and that you are sure that nobody can use macros to get similar or better results. Yeah that kinda sounds elitist so if I am misstating your position please correct me. I think the unintended consequences of the removal of NB could be severe.

1. People leaving
2. People playing only the simplest classes and/or never trying new ones
3. People find alternatives that give a few an upper hand.

Maybe there is another category.

Tools like the Macro Scheduler above absolutely can be used for targeting the weakest on the screen. To kill, to heal. If you don't think people are already using things like that you are nuts. That is 10,000 times worse than conditionals. In actuality conditions are really abused in concert with a tool like that, otherwise you are limited to your current target not the most impactful target.

Continuing the support of the NB removal will open a Pandora's box of people learning about alternative ways to make a game easier, and creates an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots. I would really appreciate people rethinking their position, from both sides.

For example I was against cross realming initially but when destro leaders came into order wbs years ago things eventually got more real when talking about class imbalance. The current flow is some order leaders (like FOW) going to destro.

I think this game currently has some player base issues, and removal of NB isn't helping it. NB comes back or the game dies on the vine. Just look at the number of city instances the last few weeks.
Im all for sequencing. and i hope the new sequencer sulle released will be equal to NB without conditional checks. I just can't stand people playing down the possibilities of nb conditional checks so they can get it back without any changes whatsoever. Its fake news and as things stand atm, no one has ever showed me how a macroing tool would do all the cool things people claim they can (like targeting the enemy on the screen with the lowest health - these things are absolutely and 100% impossible without using some kind of interface like the WAR API, and as far as Im concerned only Game Addons can do this).
Without anyone proofing all these absurd claims I just have to call them bullsh*t... sry but it is what it is.
I haven't played down the checks AT ALL. I said there are already worse things out there to worry about and you again are side stepping the issues I brought up. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. The conditionals aren't the biggest issue ROR is facing.
primary IB 8X, EN8X, WP7X, SL7X, KOTBS6X, and a bunch of under rr60 toons on order and destro with other classes.

User avatar
ChicagoJoe
Posts: 254

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#148 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:58 pm

abazaba wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:16 pm
Spoiler:
saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:40 pm
ChicagoJoe wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:17 pm

Hey, I appreciate that you don't want a sequencing tool that has conditionals for all, and that you are sure that nobody can use macros to get similar or better results. Yeah that kinda sounds elitist so if I am misstating your position please correct me. I think the unintended consequences of the removal of NB could be severe.

1. People leaving
2. People playing only the simplest classes and/or never trying new ones
3. People find alternatives that give a few an upper hand.

Maybe there is another category.

Tools like the Macro Scheduler above absolutely can be used for targeting the weakest on the screen. To kill, to heal. If you don't think people are already using things like that you are nuts. That is 10,000 times worse than conditionals. In actuality conditions are really abused in concert with a tool like that, otherwise you are limited to your current target not the most impactful target.

Continuing the support of the NB removal will open a Pandora's box of people learning about alternative ways to make a game easier, and creates an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots. I would really appreciate people rethinking their position, from both sides.

For example I was against cross realming initially but when destro leaders came into order wbs years ago things eventually got more real when talking about class imbalance. The current flow is some order leaders (like FOW) going to destro.

I think this game currently has some player base issues, and removal of NB isn't helping it. NB comes back or the game dies on the vine. Just look at the number of city instances the last few weeks.
Im all for sequencing. and i hope the new sequencer sulle released will be equal to NB without conditional checks. I just can't stand people playing down the possibilities of nb conditional checks so they can get it back without any changes whatsoever. Its fake news and as things stand atm, no one has ever showed me how a macroing tool would do all the cool things people claim they can (like targeting the enemy on the screen with the lowest health - these things are absolutely and 100% impossible without using some kind of interface like the WAR API, and as far as Im concerned only Game Addons can do this).
Without anyone proofing all these absurd claims I just have to call them bullsh*t... sry but it is what it is.
The sequencer should aim to cover enough of the player's needs that they don't go looking for 3rd party solutions.
If not, it becomes a matter of time before more sophisticated scripts surface, emulating NB to full extent and readily available to the masses.
Yes, color detection is extremely simple and could be used to emulate conditional checks, as could a log parser with a companion addon feeding any info you'd need to the relevant program. The data output and manipulation by 3rd party programs isn't the issue, its quelling the vast majority of player's want for filling that void NB left.
Exactly. I'm not a programer but I can see how easy it would be to look for the lowest health tool bars (which are a different color). I think some people just want to be right at any cost. We have had NB for over 5 years. Why to make it an issue NOW is really puzzling. The player base is not strong enough to weather it long.
primary IB 8X, EN8X, WP7X, SL7X, KOTBS6X, and a bunch of under rr60 toons on order and destro with other classes.

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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#149 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:22 pm

Im not the one dodging anything. i was talking about the NB conditionals and these only until you started bringing up pop numbers and stuff. Im not interested in discussing the consequences of the NB removal. @ChicagoJoe youre not a programmer but you can see how easy it would be to look for the lowest health tool bars in your game usinng 3rd party software that has absolutely no way to hook you up with the API. I don't even know where to start with this much misinformation going on. every thing you guys are saying is just wrong. I dont want to be right at any cost. i even told you im going to shut up if just one of you can actually show me a macro just as powerful as NB, but none of you have done it yet and I bet you can't because its fricking impossible without hacksing the game.
Its incredibly difficult to implement a neural network that would be able to recognize the lowest healthbar on your screen given only images processed by your gpu as training sets.
and as far as i can tell macro scheduler only has some simple pixel comparing algorithm which is horribly unreliable to begin with and even more so for images that are rendered in a compressed quality by some old as heck game engine.
Man this is depressing...
Edit: sry that i sound like a real Karen here but its just that i want people to understand that these magical things people claim they can do with their macro software are just fairy tales.
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abazaba
Posts: 13

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#150 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:45 pm

saupreusse wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:22 pm Im not the one dodging anything. i was talking about the NB conditionals and these only until you started bringing up pop numbers and stuff. Im not interested in discussing the consequences of the NB removal. @ChicagoJoe youre not a programmer but you can see how easy it would be to look for the lowest health tool bars in your game usinng 3rd party software that has absolutely no way to hook you up with the API. I don't even know where to start with this much misinformation going on. every thing you guys are saying is just wrong. I dont want to be right at any cost. i even told you im going to shut up if just one of you can actually show me a macro just as powerful as NB, but none of you have done it yet and I bet you can't because its fricking impossible without hacksing the game.
Its incredibly difficult to implement a neural network that would be able to recognize the lowest healthbar on your screen given only images processed by your gpu as training sets.
and as far as i can tell macro scheduler only has some simple pixel comparing algorithm which is horribly unreliable to begin with and even more so for images that are rendered in a compressed quality by some old as heck game engine.
Man this is depressing...
Edit: sry that i sound like a real Karen here but its just that i want people to understand that these magical things people claim they can do with their macro software are just fairy tales.
Quit baiting for someone to post cheating examples. What's been described has been done ad nauseum in other games and is example of what to try to avoid. The discussion here is about how the sequencer functions with regards to playability, compared to alternative options both past and present, and what both devs and playerbase find acceptable.

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