Patch Notes 22/07/2021

[ekalime]

What do you do with the Rune Rock the final rewards of the event?
Is it just a rock? lol

Hold on to it and don't throw it away. Patience.

[Dabbart]

No, of course not.

And a bug fix isn't a balance decision.

But... You just changed how abilities altered by tactics work from how this server has understood it for OVER 6 YEARS... How is that NOT balance discussion worthy?! You made a post "Chillwind is an ability. Even if that ability is modified by a tactic, it is still an ability." Direct quote(which was listed on page 5 of this thread) from Azarael in 2015;
"The way I've implemented tactics generally in RoR is that they all stack with each other in the Tactics stacking group, regardless of whether the effect is applied directly via the base tactic buff or indirectly via a procced buff."

So, you just changed how the games balance works, call it a bug fix, and we're not gonna discuss it at ALL?! Does this mean that every ability altered via tactic that STACKS is considered a BUG and should be reported and then fixed? Don't just make a statement that alters the game structure then leave it at that mate.

Again, to hell with the Sorc self stacking debuffs. Feel free to make exemptions for the sake of game balance, that's fine. If anything, BW not stacking was the bug, but was input as an exemption due to balance.

But you made a statement that is entirely inconsistent with HOW THIS SERVER HAS ALWAYS WORKED. And call it a Bug fix. What. The. ****.

[Caduceus]

Well, there you go.

Good point Dabbart.

[sogeou]

But... You just changed how abilities altered by tactics work from how this server has understood it for OVER 6 YEARS... How is that NOT balance discussion worthy?! You made a post "Chillwind is an ability. Even if that ability is modified by a tactic, it is still an ability." Direct quote(which was listed on page 5 of this thread) from Azarael in 2015;
"The way I've implemented tactics generally in RoR is that they all stack with each other in the Tactics stacking group, regardless of whether the effect is applied directly via the base tactic buff or indirectly via a procced buff."

So, you just changed how the games balance works, call it a bug fix, and we're not gonna discuss it at ALL?! Does this mean that every ability altered via tactic that STACKS is considered a BUG and should be reported and then fixed? Don't just make a statement that alters the game structure then leave it at that mate.

Again, to hell with the Sorc self stacking debuffs. Feel free to make exemptions for the sake of game balance, that's fine. If anything, BW not stacking was the bug, but was input as an exemption due to balance.

But you made a statement that is entirely inconsistent with HOW THIS SERVER HAS ALWAYS WORKED. And call it a Bug fix. What. The. ****.

Dalen can see the code, so he can see if it should match the BW based on the code. I don't remember the sorc's stack in live, I ran with a magus a lot.

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

But... You just changed how abilities altered by tactics work from how this server has understood it for OVER 6 YEARS... How is that NOT balance discussion worthy?! You made a post "Chillwind is an ability. Even if that ability is modified by a tactic, it is still an ability." Direct quote(which was listed on page 5 of this thread) from Azarael in 2015;
"The way I've implemented tactics generally in RoR is that they all stack with each other in the Tactics stacking group, regardless of whether the effect is applied directly via the base tactic buff or indirectly via a procced buff."

So, you just changed how the games balance works, call it a bug fix, and we're not gonna discuss it at ALL?! Does this mean that every ability altered via tactic that STACKS is considered a BUG and should be reported and then fixed? Don't just make a statement that alters the game structure then leave it at that mate.

Again, to hell with the Sorc self stacking debuffs. Feel free to make exemptions for the sake of game balance, that's fine. If anything, BW not stacking was the bug, but was input as an exemption due to balance.

But you made a statement that is entirely inconsistent with HOW THIS SERVER HAS ALWAYS WORKED. And call it a Bug fix. What. The. ****.

Dalen can see the code, so he can see if it should match the BW based on the code. I don't remember the sorc's stack in live, I ran with a magus a lot.

Again. BW tactic did not stack. Sorc tactic did stack. Dalen claimed that ANY ability altered via tactic should NOT stack with other abilities. This is NOT how the server has functioned for over 6 years. The BW NOT stacking was the "bug" as I understand it, but believe it was altered due to Balance. If the sorc should be altered the same for the same reasons, fine I have no issue with this.

I do not know how I can be any clearer. Tactics/Abilities/Morales all stack. That is how this server has worked generally, there are exceptions for the sake of Balance. An ability altered by a Tactic stacked with other abilities. It's been this way for 6+ years. I just want confirmation that ALL abilities functioning this way are now considered Bugs.

Stop using Sorc/BW as an argument. This is about all classes and how things stack, not just them.

Btw, one can only imagine the level of spaghetti code. How many Devs and coders has this server seen? There have been major changes and roll backs all over the place. .ab ex was removed cause the person who wrote it was gone and those left couldn't do something with it(I can't remember exactly) so the entire thing was scrapped. Hell, Diminishing Rations still procs in t3! Allegedly it doesn't do anything, but it's still there... Sorry, but I don't have confidence that the code is set-up and organized with little notes explaining why this change was input for what reason and how it should work across it's mirror.

[Glorian]

I still couldn’t find an answer. How long is the return to Ekrund Event running?

[wargrimnir]

Again. BW tactic did not stack. Sorc tactic did stack. Dalen claimed that ANY ability altered via tactic should NOT stack with other abilities. This is NOT how the server has functioned for over 6 years. The BW NOT stacking was the "bug" as I understand it, but believe it was altered due to Balance. If the sorc should be altered the same for the same reasons, fine I have no issue with this.

I do not know how I can be any clearer. Tactics/Abilities/Morales all stack. That is how this server has worked generally, there are exceptions for the sake of Balance. An ability altered by a Tactic stacked with other abilities. It's been this way for 6+ years. I just want confirmation that ALL abilities functioning this way are now considered Bugs.

Stop using Sorc/BW as an argument. This is about all classes and how things stack, not just them.

You sure make it sound like there's several abilities that would affected by this logic. Do you have an example in mind?

[Dabbart]

Z armor/resis debuff
RP armor debuff Edit: When the Balance team GAVE this ability to RP, they didn't give the resis debuff because a STACKING ele debuff on order would be OP.
SM AoE DT(pretty sure it stacks with challenge, haven't played SM for years)
Shaman Brain Bursta Toughness Debuff
SW Wrist Slash(before it was neutered, removed, whatever happened to it. If it was a bug and shouldn't stack, then why did it get neutered in the first place?) If no more ability altered stacking occurs, can SWs get their on demand ini debuff back?
One could argue Pierce Defense, but it's an on defense proc so maybe not
WE Envemoned Blade Stacks(I think, again haven't played WE for years)
Z HoT Specifically does NOT because it was viewed as OP.(as per aza)

Off the top of my head. I'm sure I am missing a few.

[Phantasm]

Spoiler:

So is this gonna be phased in to all abilities that used to stack if it was tactic / morale / ability? Or are you just going to ignore core mechanics and make an exception for one class? If you want to nerf sorc why aren't you just doing that instead of very sloppy balance work? It makes you seem to not understand the game you are balancing.

Chillwind is an ability. Even if that ability is modified by a tactic, it is still an ability.

Just like Powerful Draw doesn't turn Thadow sting into a tactic, even if it is modified by the powerful draw tactic.

https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/5937

Interesting logic, Sorc enhanced ability with tactic doesnt stack with other abilities/buffs, but WL ability enhanced with tactic stack - thanks to a fix - with other abilities/buffs.
Not pointing anything, but it looks like there is no really rulling for stacks which being followed. Please pick one and hold on to it.

[geezereur]

What do you do with the Rune Rock the final rewards of the event?
Is it just a rock? lol

Hold on to it and don't throw it away. Patience.

ok thank you