Patch Notes 26/02/2021

[Jaffawer]

lmao

[Grock]

I did some maths and obviously it's hardly a nerf for light armored classes, considering pretty much every physical dps running with 75% arpen (50% at worst).

So let say you have endgear light armor of 2000, with heavy reliance on armor tali, let's say 6 x (out of the 7 or 8 you can fit), and you are hit by a 50% to 75% arpen enemy (choppa/slayer, Mara, SH/SW, WH/WE can easily achieve those values) :

Before :
2000 + (6*180) = 3080 armor
3080 * 0.25 = 770 armor left = 17.5% mitigation.
3080 * 0.5 = 1540 armor left = 35% mitigation.

Now :
2000 + (6*136) = 2816 armor
2816 * 0.25 = 704 armor left = 16% mitigation.
2816 * 0.5 = 1408 armor left = 32% mitigation.

The difference is about 3% less mitigation against the baseline arpen values, and 1.5% against max arpen. That will hardly makes any difference in survival for light-armored classes.
Mitigation difference is exactly the same for medium armored (around 3400 base) and Heavy armors (around 4800 base) = about 1.5% to 3% for 6 slotted talismans, against 75% and 50% arpen respectively.

Plus the talisman "nerf" will not change other bonuses (tactics, potions and buffs), and definately not affect armor debuffs efficiency since they are flat amounts.
Not really a big deal at the end, IMO.

Basically this.

The only thing to add is relative increase of inc dmg - in first case it went from 82.5% dmg to 84% dmg, which is 1.8% increase, and in second case it went from 65% dmg to 68% dmg, which is 4.6% increase. As you can see the effect is more noticeable for higher armor values, while at low armor it is very negligible.

If you take debuffs into account the difference becomes even smaller because you'll be hitting against even lower numbers.

p.s. choppa/slayer definitely don't reach 75% armor pen "easily", we have to invest a lot of sacrifice some things, but its an overkill anyway imo

[Greenbeast]

I did some maths and obviously it's hardly a nerf for light armored classes, considering pretty much every physical dps running with 75% arpen (50% at worst).

So let say you have endgear light armor of 2000, with heavy reliance on armor tali, let's say 6 x (out of the 7 or 8 you can fit), and you are hit by a 50% to 75% arpen enemy (choppa/slayer, Mara, SH/SW, WH/WE can easily achieve those values) :

Before :
2000 + (6*180) = 3080 armor
3080 * 0.25 = 770 armor left = 17.5% mitigation.
3080 * 0.5 = 1540 armor left = 35% mitigation.

Now :
2000 + (6*136) = 2816 armor
2816 * 0.25 = 704 armor left = 16% mitigation.
2816 * 0.5 = 1408 armor left = 32% mitigation.

The difference is about 3% less mitigation against the baseline arpen values, and 1.5% against max arpen. That will hardly makes any difference in survival for light-armored classes.
Mitigation difference is exactly the same for medium armored (around 3400 base) and Heavy armors (around 4800 base) = about 1.5% to 3% for 6 slotted talismans, against 75% and 50% arpen respectively.

Plus the talisman "nerf" will not change other bonuses (tactics, potions and buffs), and definately not affect armor debuffs efficiency since they are flat amounts.
Not really a big deal at the end, IMO.

Basically this.

The only thing to add is relative increase of inc dmg - in first case it went from 82.5% dmg to 84% dmg, which is 1.8% increase, and in second case it went from 65% dmg to 68% dmg, which is 4.6% increase. As you can see the effect is more noticeable for higher armor values, while at low armor it is very negligible.

If you take debuffs into account the difference becomes even smaller because you'll be hitting against even lower numbers.

p.s. choppa/slayer definitely don't reach 75% armor pen "easily", we have to invest a lot of sacrifice some things, but its an overkill anyway imo

I can only suggest you to stop theory crafting around solo/duo groups and think about other classes that can bring stackable, single target or aoe armor debuff.
The nerf is 10% mitigation for light armor classes. If you think that they difference between 10 and 20% mitigation is insignificat then fine.
I'm not talking about pugs/zerg scenarios. In this scenarios you can disable half of the game mechanics and the game will stay the same.
What I'm talking about are premades that can spike you for 8000 HP/Second during the knock down. In that scenario 10% mitigation is equal of 2-3 seconds that maybe will allow second healer to react.
But keep pretending that it's dosent matter. For your class it's defenitely not a problem because your class benefits from this change more than anybody else.

[Hugatsaga]

My spreadsheet (although I copied that from someone smarter than me) says its something like 5%-7% phys dmg mitigation nerf under normal circumstances. After additional armor debuffs, armor bypassing abilities or with stupid high armor pen the talisman nerf difference is obviously less. Hey its even 0% if you compare getting AW'd in the back before and after nerf but thats hardly good and accurate situation for calculation. Neither is 75% pen if you ask me but now that the 1,5% number is out there I'm already seeing people parroting it in advice and region chat and saying its no big deal. Oh well.

Sov zeal, Warping the Spirit procced, armor debuffed by WL. with 180's:

Spoiler:

Sov zeal. Warping the Spirit procced, armor debuffed by WL. With 136's:

Spoiler:

Edit ignore the part where it says has 3x BL and skaven ring on, thats not the case in this example: only full sov, warping and 180's/136's.

[vanbuinen77]

Good changes

[xanderous]

Gives WH aoe armor debuff then nerfs armor talismans, nothing suspicious here.

[Grock]

I can only suggest you to stop theory crafting around solo/duo groups and think about other classes that can bring stackable, single target or aoe armor debuff.
The nerf is 10% mitigation for light armor classes. If you think that they difference between 10 and 20% mitigation is insignificat then fine.
I'm not talking about pugs/zerg scenarios. In this scenarios you can disable half of the game mechanics and the game will stay the same.
What I'm talking about are premades that can spike you for 8000 HP/Second during the knock down. In that scenario 10% mitigation is equal of 2-3 seconds that maybe will allow second healer to react.
But keep pretending that it's dosent matter. For your class it's defenitely not a problem because your class benefits from this change more than anybody else.

"10% mitigation" is 440 armor (actually more when you count weapon skill), are you really losing that much from this nerf? Were you using 10 armor talismans?
The difference between 10% and 20% mitigation is about 11% more incoming damge, in your example that s like 1k damge, but your numbers are far from reality anyway, the real values are way lower
This will most definitely not give you 2-3 seconds when taking 8k dps in

Also since you weren't paying attention i also noted whats gonna happen when target gets debuffed and who's going to benefit frm that the most. And as i already explained my class doesn't benefit from this "more than anybody else" because we already have to stack massive armor penetration which makes these changes absolutely negligible. Are you really trying to tell me that 2% less mitigation on the target is going to make my day? Give me a break

You tell me to stop theorycraft while not getting the point, i guess all i can reply is to stop whining? The math is right there, you can try to understand the real change or you can just keep being upset, your choice

[Arthem]

I don't even play healer but I don't see why you are nerfing all healers bar dok / wp further widening the gap between the best 2 healers and the other 4. Do you not see there is already enough armor pen in the game, there is no need for this massive nerf to poor healers, we should try to appreciate them and encourage ppl to want to play those.

[Grock]

My spreadsheet (although I copied that from someone smarter than me) says its something like 5%-7% phys dmg mitigation nerf under normal circumstances. After additional armor debuffs, armor bypassing abilities or with stupid high armor pen the talisman nerf difference is obviously less. Hey its even 0% if you compare getting AW'd in the back before and after nerf but thats hardly good and accurate situation for calculation. Neither is 75% pen if you ask me but now that the 1,5% number is out there I'm already seeing people parroting it in advice and region chat and saying its no big deal. Oh well.

Sov zeal, Warping the Spirit procced, armor debuffed by WL. with 180's:

Spoiler:

Sov zeal. Warping the Spirit procced, armor debuffed by WL. With 136's:

Spoiler:

Edit ignore the part where it says has 3x BL and skaven ring on, thats not the case in this example: only full sov, warping and 180's/136's.

Nice one, but slayers are usually around 60%, and WL's would use 50% armor pen tactic when going Whirling Axe

Also can you please add relative increase in actual incoming dmg please

[Fenris78]

Gives WH aoe armor debuff then nerfs armor talismans, nothing suspicious here.

Actually armor debuff is by no way affected by armor reduction on talismans, since as I mentioned in my previous post, armor debuffs are flat value, not % decrease.
So armor debuff will always adds the same amount of dmg, unless your total armor is LESS than the debuff (I cant imagine running with less than 1600 armor = the baseline on Vanquisher-level light-armored classes, plus armor pot you got at least 2200+, armor debuffs being limited to 1500 or something like that).

And dont even start trying to argue since we can count pretty much every class Destru side with armor-piercing/ignoring abilities. I bet Order side dont have as many (WL for instance cannot have +50% arpen on 2/3rd of their skill like Mara can have, not to mention Destru side 2 rdps over 3 totally ignore armor on all their magical skills while Order only have one and half able to do that).