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Patch Notes 03/12/2020

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Ugle
Posts: 589

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#191 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:51 pm

Ini debuff does nothing to mitigation itself afaik, this was noncrit dmg. Toughness debuff shouldn't affect that much, unless something weird happens when you get debuffed to zero or negative (is that even a thing?) Running with 30ish toughness :p

With 4,2k armor at the time, even debuffed , with a lot of arpen from ws and arpen tactic, you shouldnt achieve such wild differences.
It certainly dosent happen the other way around, with 900 ws arpen, 660 armor debuff and +25 % arpen tact on sw, hence my question if something strange is going on connected to the SH rework.
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Dabbart
Posts: 2248

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#192 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:06 pm

30 toughness! Haha, I love it. That's strange then. DoT damage shouldn't be changed like that unless you were debuffed. You sure it was a physical DoT? Edit; who knows though. There's a bunch of % damage increase and decreasers on set bonus'. A SS would answer it.
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Neverever
Posts: 193

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#193 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:06 am

maxonian wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:40 pm
Teefz wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:16 am EA has gone from being useful in a few situations, despite it's low damage, to being completely useless all together in this rework.

As an SH player I'll politely disagree here.

EA have always been pretty ****. AOE dmg was always laughable. What were you using it for other than protecting Yer Bleedin and Rotten Arrer from cleanses? EA's new purpose is to punt people off the walls, for them to get mauled by choppas and WEs, which you could hardly do after the first iteration of class rework, with EA being changed to PBAoE, instead of a targetted ability it currently is. The new EA is a less SH-oriented and more wb-oriented ability.

Put another way, EA had had utility before, EA has utility now (albeit of a different kind). To say that's it's completely useless is to disregard new utility and possible situational uses of an ability. I disagree with you and anyone who says EA is not worth the point (we've been given a freebie with Run away going core too).

Teefz wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:16 am Currently with this rework, it feels like the direction you guys want is that QS-squig herders aren't ment to take part in various aspects such as keep/fortress

I dont feel that way at all. After latest patch I feel that SH is absolutely back making impact in wb and keep/fort sieges plays.
With finisher FEO being returned to it's rightful place in BS with 100ft range, the burst and killing potential is once again restored. Claiming that "but we're discussing QS being not viable here! What's BS have to do with this?" doesnt work here, because no rSH it truly "pure QS". This
RR40 build utilises most QS abilities and still leaves you with 9 mastery points to spec into BS, with next logical step being grabbing FEO at RR50 (heck, even taking the entirety of QS has you with 4 points left at RR40). Thus all rSHs are always both QS and BS, unless you simply refrain from spending mastery points outside of QS.

With that being said, IF you insist on playing 'pure QS', I can see a problem of new Yer Bleedin bottlenecking your rotations and DPS. As many rSHs have experienced after the patch, myself included, you find yourself in a weird limbo if your Yer Bleedin gets dodged or blocked - making you unable to apply Rotten Arrer, thus BOTH of your DoTs are going out of the window (that's 2 out of 2, rSHs dont have many). What could you do if that happens?

What Blocka, Plink, Lots o Arrers - all stationary casts from BS. Defy the 'mobile' nature of QS
Run n Shoot - basic cast on the move QS damaging ability. Okay but not extraordinary damage

Which brings me to a point, that for a tree that's supposed to be high risk (short range)/high reward (burst and dps), the risk is always there, but the rewards are very dependent on landing Yer Bleedin first try or you're screwed offensively. Defensively you still got the disarm, the silence, the snare, the run away, the self punt, the RKD to wait out Yer Bleedin cooldown and try again or disengage.

BUT - and that should be a massive but (pun intended) - all of this QS-purist pain of not landing Yer Bleedin and then suffering is mostly only applicable in solo roaming context. During wb plays your target is likely to already be Ailing from your teammates' abilities, thereby letting you go ham with Rotten Arrers and running around, fully utilising the freedom of QS. I really fail to see how your claim of "QS-squig herders aren't ment to take part in various aspects such as keep/fortress" is justifiable. Personally I dont feel that way at all. Especially during the more mobile stages of keep and fort sieges (guarding posterns for keeps and BO phase in forts)

I currently run this build. With pets becoming much more valuable because of 1) Sharpened Arrers armor pen which is very potent (as you probably tested) and 2) New range-inceasing Gas squig to mitigate QS range reduction, I chose to run I Got Lots, which I believe is an underappreciated tactic many SHs are sleeping on yet. It works great for the game context I engage the most in - RVR. With it I am never squig-less for long, even if last squig melted in order AOE barrage seconds ago. It also enables me to use Tastes like Chicken at will, without fear of locking myself out of my stance/class mechanic for 30 seconds.

Overall, I feel that the first iteration of rSH rework completely butchered the essence of the class, but the second one revived it, even if it is in a different fashion (but 'rework' implies things being different in the end, right?). I am once again having fun and not feeling shame for taking a spot in wb that a sorc or a magus could have taken. Cheers to devs for their ability to take off rough angles that the first patch brought.
Well that interesting build alone demonstrates your vast knowledge of the SH class for sure..

I agree with Teefz here, although I appreciate the effort and all the work behind it EA is not worth to even spend a spec point. SH Big Shooting tree is far less effectual compared to SW scout tree.

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KissShot
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Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#194 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:31 pm

Krima wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:20 pm
KissShot wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:52 pm - The cost for renown respeccing has been removed.

Glorious.
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!
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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#195 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:32 pm

Hello about ranged Squig:
I like new changes of tree. All skills are in hand about 70rr. I play this build: https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,5499,5508
U add very nice dps tac, so i play 4 dps tac for max dps/burst. But very fast out of ap. I know Ap pots other classes etc itd. But If i want play less burst but longer dps ( pve bosses ) I need use Ap tac. Shy got 2 ap tac. I Feelz Yer Pain regain ap when crit but only on Big shooting. It is posible to change when U use any ranged ability on Crit but less Ap ? Sec tac Clever Recorvery Ap on enemy dodge. Prob is mobs dont dodge and if nothing change Fort boss too dont dodge. So this tac work only on pvp. So can U change this tac more for melle squig ? Ap on blok and parry ? Right now i will never trade 4 dps tac for this ap tac. Next U reduce cd on armor squig to 5 sec. Kaboom dont have cd only req be in armor squig, so i can Kaboom every 5 sec :D Next Git Em dont need now armor squig, its like Wl Coordinated Strike so hit like truck >>armor squig. Next Bounce mele stun 3 sec and new ranged stun. I suggest make Bounce some req like only mele squigs.

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Brutinho
Posts: 164

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#196 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:41 pm

Teefz wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:16 am
EA has gone from being useful in a few situations, despite it's low damage, to being completely useless all together in this rework. There are multiple questions that come to mind:

- Why does Squig Herder need another AOE kb?

- Why is this ability now a 2s cast AOE if you are constantly stating that AOE is for bouncin' only?

The damage or lack thereof on the ability combined with the amount of downtime in DPS and mobility, I still find it extremely useless. Unless you wanna roleplay choppa and handout free immunites all over the place. Not worth the spec point in it's current form. The old pre-rework version would synergise better and provide another insta ailment for RA, since there is CD on YB now.


Currently with this rework, it feels like the direction you guys want is that QS-squig herders aren't ment to take part in various aspects such as keep/fortress or instigate fights anymore, but their sole purpose is to gank somewhere where their limited range isn't at a huge disadvantage or to charge right behind destruction's melee train. So far, overall, you've succesfully managed to raise the damage and skillcap of the spec, while ultimately sacrificing QS-squig herders viability in multiple environments. In a toss up between having shorter range and more dmg or having more range and less dmg, it would be interesting to see what the community would choose. Both specs can work imo, pre-rework is just significantly less trivial and adds more enjoyment and options to the overall gameplay of the character.
Jurki wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:08 pm Tested the SH now quite a while and i have to say that its like playing an ego shooter. The amount of dmg burst is way too much with the new attempt of adjusting.

New suggestion:
-baseline 80ft range on QS
-remove the bonus crit dmg granted by SWDW on behind ya and red tipped arrer. or make it 20% bonus dmg.
-reduce the granted armor pen of the new tactic to like 15%
-remove the 5sec cd on Yer Bleedin, remove the ini debuff and apply it on shrapnel arrer

I had similar ideas after trying out the new changes. Really liked that they moved FEO back to BS and RTA to 13pt with the added absorb break makes it really good.

Range: As teefz said it does feel that QS squigs (or rsh in general) are not meant to participate on keeps or forts anymore. To Jurki's proposal to increase the baseline to 80ft I have a small modification (considering an old comment you made) raise it to 75ft only, but update bonus on endgame gear to increase range by 10ft. Could be added to 4p warlord as it is a QS focused set (Invader range increase is at 5p, but endgame gear bonuses should be considerably better). You will have to sacrifice some other bonus(es) in order to get the range increase (i.e. armor pen or crit from sov main). This will leave QS skills at 85ft or 100 ft with Gas Squig. You can use Spike when roaming and in oRvR warbands as support ST burst or Gast Squig to harass keep and fort walls.

SWDW: If range changes were to happen I agree this tactic would bring too much damage without take much risk. Lowering the crit damage to 20-25% would be a fair adjustment in conjunction with Sharper Arrers Tactic.

Sharper Arrers: If range changes were to happen I aggreed it should be decreased. 20% armor pen should be fair as it is tied to having an active pet

Yer Bleedin: Interesting idea to keep it spamable and put the initiative debuff to Shrapnel Arrer

Explosive Arrer: Like Teefz and other rsh said, it is not even worth spending a mastery point on it. Free immunities is already choppa's job :P Would rather have a insta or 1 sec cast ST punt to help keep targets at distance from the stationary ST damage tree.
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