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Patch Notes 23/03/2019

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buff
Posts: 11

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#261 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:41 am

Liandel wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:40 am
buff wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:25 pm This hits the 6v6 me bro players the hardest and that's why you see so much heat on the forums. Guard should have been looked at in live and nerfed for everything outside of RVR. The fact that it still does 50% in SC while allowing a glass cannon dps to stack with your dps tank with no chance of you getting zerged by a wb is stupid. The devs are doing good work here.
The "6v6 bro players" are also an essential part of the community. Last official 6v6 event had hundreds of viewers on Twitch watching multiple different streamers streaming at the same time, and attracted many new players to the game who wouldn't have heard of it otherwise. This change has resulted in next week's 6 v 6 event to be canceled. This is bad. it's unwise to drive everyone but zergers away from the game.

The original game welcomed diverse gameplay styles and therefore you saw a wider variety of fights using different compositions. It made the playerbase more skilled and agile as they had to adapt to multiple fight formats. Dumbing down gameplay to this level breaks the spirit of the original Warhammer.
If you want to see exactly what happens when a server caters to the 6v6 crowd go look at apoc that thing was like a Test server on live that you only logged in to make templates and do 6v6's. The WB crowd got farmed hard by old school and all the players that came with Avocetti raged off the game.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#262 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:43 am

I don't want to derail any further, but...
Spoiler:
buff wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:41 am
Liandel wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:40 am
buff wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:25 pm This hits the 6v6 me bro players the hardest and that's why you see so much heat on the forums. Guard should have been looked at in live and nerfed for everything outside of RVR. The fact that it still does 50% in SC while allowing a glass cannon dps to stack with your dps tank with no chance of you getting zerged by a wb is stupid. The devs are doing good work here.
The "6v6 bro players" are also an essential part of the community. Last official 6v6 event had hundreds of viewers on Twitch watching multiple different streamers streaming at the same time, and attracted many new players to the game who wouldn't have heard of it otherwise. This change has resulted in next week's 6 v 6 event to be canceled. This is bad. it's unwise to drive everyone but zergers away from the game.

The original game welcomed diverse gameplay styles and therefore you saw a wider variety of fights using different compositions. It made the playerbase more skilled and agile as they had to adapt to multiple fight formats. Dumbing down gameplay to this level breaks the spirit of the original Warhammer.
If you want to see exactly what happens when a server caters to the 6v6 crowd go look at apoc that thing was like a Test server on live that you only logged in to make templates and do 6v6's. The WB crowd got farmed hard by old school and all the players that came with Avocetti raged off the game.
That isn't an example of a server facilitating to 6v6: it's an example of a bad warband being farmed by a good 6-man, and instead of licking their wounds and readjusting their play, they took the easy way out and left the game.
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Liandel
Posts: 88

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#263 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:45 am

buff wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:41 am
Liandel wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:40 am
buff wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:25 pm This hits the 6v6 me bro players the hardest and that's why you see so much heat on the forums. Guard should have been looked at in live and nerfed for everything outside of RVR. The fact that it still does 50% in SC while allowing a glass cannon dps to stack with your dps tank with no chance of you getting zerged by a wb is stupid. The devs are doing good work here.
The "6v6 bro players" are also an essential part of the community. Last official 6v6 event had hundreds of viewers on Twitch watching multiple different streamers streaming at the same time, and attracted many new players to the game who wouldn't have heard of it otherwise. This change has resulted in next week's 6 v 6 event to be canceled. This is bad. it's unwise to drive everyone but zergers away from the game.

The original game welcomed diverse gameplay styles and therefore you saw a wider variety of fights using different compositions. It made the playerbase more skilled and agile as they had to adapt to multiple fight formats. Dumbing down gameplay to this level breaks the spirit of the original Warhammer.
If you want to see exactly what happens when a server caters to the 6v6 crowd go look at apoc that thing was like a Test server on live that you only logged in to make templates and do 6v6's. The WB crowd got farmed hard by old school and all the players that came with Avocetti raged off the game.
If 24 people can get wiped by 6, that means the 24 people are extremely inept and should reconsider their playstyle. That warband and guild needs to have some serious internal talks with leadership and players to figure out how 24 people were able to be killed by 6.

It does NOT mean, however, that you should remove everything that made it possible for those six people to overcome the 24. Numbers alone should not always predetermine the outcome of a fight.
Liandel AKA Lednail. Chaos Wastes->Phoenix Throne->Gorfang->Badlands->Karak Azgal->Karak Norn->Badlands.
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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#264 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:47 am

buff wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:41 am
Liandel wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:40 am
buff wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:25 pm This hits the 6v6 me bro players the hardest and that's why you see so much heat on the forums. Guard should have been looked at in live and nerfed for everything outside of RVR. The fact that it still does 50% in SC while allowing a glass cannon dps to stack with your dps tank with no chance of you getting zerged by a wb is stupid. The devs are doing good work here.
The "6v6 bro players" are also an essential part of the community. Last official 6v6 event had hundreds of viewers on Twitch watching multiple different streamers streaming at the same time, and attracted many new players to the game who wouldn't have heard of it otherwise. This change has resulted in next week's 6 v 6 event to be canceled. This is bad. it's unwise to drive everyone but zergers away from the game.

The original game welcomed diverse gameplay styles and therefore you saw a wider variety of fights using different compositions. It made the playerbase more skilled and agile as they had to adapt to multiple fight formats. Dumbing down gameplay to this level breaks the spirit of the original Warhammer.
If you want to see exactly what happens when a server caters to the 6v6 crowd go look at apoc that thing was like a Test server on live that you only logged in to make templates and do 6v6's. The WB crowd got farmed hard by old school and all the players that came with Avocetti raged off the game.
There is a difference between not catering to that crowd and catering to the opposite end of the spectrum. The game has... semi survived for a long time with guard the way it was. It probably didnt need to be changed.

It wouldnt have been a bad idea when the game was in beta, but it's pretty late in the game to make a change like this. Not insurmountable, just unnecessary and likely to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#265 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:03 am

GoshDarn wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:32 am Do not take players feedback on sets into consideration, it is quite frankly a waste of time. Actually I would advise ignoring it completely, as players typically lie so they can have an "I win button". It is a gosh darn shame, boy i'll tell ya.
Yes we """ lie """meanwhile on the dev quest to make the game better ignoring our ad personam stuff black ork recived

While in need just for 2h avoidance

-a panic button for both s+b and 2h (but his alredy s+b panic button is still there be shitty compared to SM wods)
-but is on 2h mastery
-it's better than vigilance and when i say better i mean it buff ALL possible def stats a class can have (QQ)
-it's also a dmg buff (QQ)
-it have an update time of 66% vs 50% of rest stuff in game (QQ and basically what make cheese some of the most cheese stuff in game)
- it have the lol trade out ever seen

Dev should alredy know who give objective and neutral feedback by now, we are in this boat of a project by 5 years alredy and for some of us this make 9- 10 years of game considering live with ppl mostly also playing 2 sides which mean they want all class have conpetitive stuff and with issues staying in game from live beta....with no one taking care of em, with feedback and proposal be made consistently but be over and over ignored in favor of dev agenda...you could argue "their house their will"but this not a matter of who holds the power its a matter to get results at balancing.

-s+b ch/kobs punt has been nerfed because on the base that they were too much prevalent in sc ( aswl other s+b changes)
- now all 2h tank get nerf because they are too much prevalent in small scale?

Really?! This should give a long way to explain the madness some of us are living. Any can bring some sense into this project patch history please?! This feel like more and more like league of legends with patch pushed just for the sake of changes rather than have a balanced game.
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venrik
Posts: 64

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#266 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:14 am

One of the reasons I loved Warhammer online so much is that it allowed for a multitude of play styles. I could play in a warband, or a 6 man, or a duo, or just solo, and have fun. With every patch a little more of that gets eroded away. There was no need for this change. You moved all the stuff that benefits group play (that includes SCs) to the two hander trees, and now you make that spec redundant with this change. I came here because I loved warhammer online. This is not warhammer online. This is your show, I get that, but please think about the reason most people come to this server. For WAR, for the game they loved. Yes it needed tweaking, but this just seems ridiculous.

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Drozen
Posts: 148

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#267 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:36 am

I for one is not for these changes with the guard, i would accept them at 25% but only if it was for both 2h and snb (not saying its a good one, but would accept it) seperating it in this way is not the way to go.. And this is way, there is already trade off you make when going 2h or snb, defense May go up or down, dps up or down, diffrent types of utility etc. Playing 2h in smallerscall is the far superior option in most casses, while going snb in wb is the only option for a tank... And here is where it get fun, yes pug wbs are running rampert with 2h tanks but that dont make it right. In no way or form will we in TuP accept a 2h tank, htl for the group and The extra avoidens from block is simply to important.

Smallerscale dont NEED this most of the time so they can simply want to pick other utility based tactics/ability from the tank that May Come from beeing req for a 2h, my personal build is hastened dissmissal :longer Kb, and a 10sec reduction in cd. On my chosen. I play it fullt defensless beeing minus abou15% to be crit, capped toughness and wounds with resistens and ofc a shitton armor & avoidens.

Now losing all that fun and different tank play from doing the normal htl & challenge wich is basic in organised wb play is not gonna give no More braincells i tell you that. But it is the effect way to do it.

That nerf in half is a big and very unfair one that, suvivabilty was never a issue for the tank, you just made it even more so now.

Removing a way to play, all diffrent tank tree's and tactis is the big issue hear. Those Who do it right and utilizing the classes to max and there potential are beeing puniched here. Beeing it smallscale or wb play. It is these types of guild weithee you like it nor Who is the core of the server..

Taking a change based cuz He think snb is useless (wich couldnt be more wrong) and need to do something about all the 2h running about beeing mostly useless not guarding and would we ask for a guard swapp his brain will prob exploid..

You are going about this in the wrong way, comparing it to dps healers aint fair either since you do loose you defense wich is about 30-40%block & Htl for you and The group.. And if you wanna argue with you gain dps with 2h, yes you May do on some classes.. Chosen & kotbs hell no, but SM & bo most definetly same for bg & IB..

In honesty dont make tank the most boring to play, dont force ppl into snb cuz you dont want to loose the 50%,it is core of the class it is to important to loose. The 2h specc in regards are the most fun you can play.. Beeing a tank since live and played with likes of exodus & redguard and now home in TuP with mixing up some smallscale stuff with fusion ppl from time to time, this is the most enjoyable way to play tank.. So much more the tank then simply snb and htl & challenge wich is the wb way. Where SnB is THE ONLY VALID SPECC.
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marisco
Posts: 182

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#268 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:38 am

Yaliskah wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:55 pm This test -cause like any change it is a test first- don't come from nowhere and is motivated by players feedbacks complaining that SnB are useless compared with 2H cause tankiness and general archetype tools are not really impacted in facts when DPS is demultiplied and tools even they can be different are still usefull for the group. I personally share this, and have played Snd and 2H tank in smallscale, and lets be honest, i see no advantage to play a SnB tank, excpet in Dungeons OR to Funnel/siege, which is very situationnal...
Problem: SNB tanking is boring and not interesting.

Option A: Make SNB tanking interesting.

Option B: Wreck 2h tanking so people will be forced to migrate to snb for necessity.


I guess you chose B. Is that really the way to solve the issue? :roll:

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 979

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#269 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:44 am

Whew, thank Grimnir I play a SnB Ironbreaker, boy would I be mad if I woke up and I had spent the x2 renown week leveling a 2h tank!

In seriousness, I guess we will have to see how 25% damage reduction works in 6 man/small scale. Some people here acting like 50% regular reduction wasn’t necessary, from my perspective as a Slayer I kinda feel like it was necessary. The change seems like it will end up with Slayer being too squish to be guarded by a 2h so one or the other should be replaced in the grp comp.
Last edited by CountTalabecland on Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:54 am, edited 5 times in total.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Patch Notes 23/03/2019

Post#270 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:49 am

Drozen wrote: The extra avoidens from block is simply to important.
Htl stack at max 3 times (aka on paper you just need 3 tank for max eff) 1 tank can go 2h with out whole wb loose anything and he can benefith from s+b htl too...you just going brain dead here.... I posted my rr 70 2h bg wb build /stats at page 12 go read it to have an idea of how much a bg can be more durable than a chosen and bring a lot of usefull stuff on the table with avoidance any other class will never dream to have even in sov.
Last edited by Tesq on Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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