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Client Changelog 01/09/2018

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Gomdor
Posts: 37

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#31 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:31 am

nice work.
Black Orc 'Gazuaa'

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Azarael
Posts: 5342

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#32 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:32 am

Wear 'Em Down has been rectified.

scatterthewinds
Posts: 153

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#33 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:35 am

Foomy44 wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:52 am
scatterthewinds wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:29 am
@Aza. This game desperately needs stability. Mass changes to classes seemingly every week now is not good for anybody.
Beg to differ, having a ton of fun and looking forward to every patch with a lot more excitement than before. Some people gonna love it, some gonna hate it. Why does the game desperately need "stability"? I'm very happy with some of the changes, and the ones I don't love so much tend to get changed around fast enough that it just feels like alpha testing like it should, unlike say getting stuck being destroyed/easily destroying people by/with guardian WLs for months and months, that is not the kind of stability I want. Why are you playing on an alpha server if you don't want to test new things?
I thought it went without saying that if too many things are changed at once you don't know if the new changes are positive or negative because there are very few constant variables. Balance changes should be done gradually over time, at most 1 class at a time, but personally I wouldn't change more than a couple of abilities at a time, test for a few weeks, and then go from there. I appreciate the work and effort Aza is doing but we're basically playing a brand new game right now, at least on order side. And now kobs/chosen, the bedrock on which the damage vs mitigation game is founded, is going to get changed shortly while the rest of the classes are not yet stable. Do one class, finish it, and go to the next class. The whole thing should've been planned out in one big spreadsheet so there is an even division of tools across both factions, and then dispersion of these tools between the subclasses. The original game was actually very well balanced, with a few exceptions. There are a vocal minority of players that want to do stuff like DPS runepriest or whatever oddball build that are being treated as the majority voice for the community.

huggmuth0305
Posts: 22

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#34 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:41 am

scatterthewinds wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:35 am
Foomy44 wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:52 am
scatterthewinds wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:29 am
@Aza. This game desperately needs stability. Mass changes to classes seemingly every week now is not good for anybody.
Beg to differ, having a ton of fun and looking forward to every patch with a lot more excitement than before. Some people gonna love it, some gonna hate it. Why does the game desperately need "stability"? I'm very happy with some of the changes, and the ones I don't love so much tend to get changed around fast enough that it just feels like alpha testing like it should, unlike say getting stuck being destroyed/easily destroying people by/with guardian WLs for months and months, that is not the kind of stability I want. Why are you playing on an alpha server if you don't want to test new things?
I thought it went without saying that if too many things are changed at once you don't know if the new changes are positive or negative because there are very few constant variables. Balance changes should be done gradually over time, at most 1 class at a time, but personally I wouldn't change more than a couple of abilities at a time, test for a few weeks, and then go from there. I appreciate the work and effort Aza is doing but we're basically playing a brand new game right now, at least on order side. And now kobs/chosen, the bedrock on which the damage vs mitigation game is founded, is going to get changed shortly while the rest of the classes are not yet stable. Do one class, finish it, and go to the next class. The whole thing should've been planned out in one big spreadsheet so there is an even division of tools across both factions, and then dispersion of these tools between the subclasses. The original game was actually very well balanced, with a few exceptions. There are a vocal minority of players that want to do stuff like DPS runepriest or whatever oddball build that are being treated as the majority voice for the community.
I strongly disagree, look at a game like Dota, they change everything at once in huge patches. Just like the one we had today. It feels amazing tbh, its like playing a whole new game!

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Azarael
Posts: 5342

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#35 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:44 am

scatterthewinds wrote:...
I disagree fundamentally with your assertion, but you knew that.

Warhammer balance is not some mystical piece of engineering which we struggle to understand. We know, broadly, the issues, and how far we've come to rectifying them. Changes are at a rapid pace precisely because those issues are known. Let's take a look at this patch, for example, and the known problems it attempted to aid in / resolve:
  • Shadow Warrior Scout being overshadowed.
  • New 2H Slayer builds struggling with rage drop off target.
  • BW and Marauder overprevalence in warbands.
  • One Knight aura overshadowing the rest.
  • Ancient issues with Runepriest and Zealot related to their DPS specs being under par.
  • Tweaks to skills on SM/BO that are new, but suffer from old, known problems. In general, the reworks are aimed at dealing with old, known problems which were the result of SM/BO not being allowed good supportive specs because "they do damage!!!!!!"
  • AM and Shaman changes link all the way back into those classes failing to compete with others at their level, though the AP drain changes are a response to a known, and ancient, problem with AP management.
  • Witch Hunter / Witch Elf issues related to stealth vs charge.
  • The continued effort to give Order a class comparable to Marauder, the lack of which has hurt warband scale for a long time.
The vast majority of these - if not all of them - are independent changes. Therefore, I see no reason to wait for months, implementing simple changes at a drip rate, because of what I suspect is a conservative mindset.

RoR's community is not, and will never be, homogenous. Those who are more conservatively-minded aren't going to like me as much. That's fine - I can't please everyone, though I will try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.

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Zizzelfizz
Posts: 110

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#36 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:48 am

After every patch, the Whine starts again from the beginning. One person does not like that, the other one does. Why do not you just wait? If I recall correctly, the game is in the alpha phase. And who does not like it at all, log out, and go for a walk. The many work that is done by many and that is in there you see not at all. I play because I enjoy it, and when it does not, you just take a break
Best regards
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nat3s
Posts: 289

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#37 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:55 am

tazdingo wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:46 am
knight and chosen changes cannot come soon enough, knight being made more interesting and fun to play will certainly help in order's composition woes

i really like the flat dmg reduction now available to SM and BO, especially since avoidance has been nerfed in several ways recently. 10% is huge but needed on what are possibly the 2 least tanky tanks

also expect to see dps shamans everywhere, like, 2016 levels
Looking at the changes... What makes you think dps shamans have overtaken AMs in the dps department? I'd still expect AM > shaman for pure dps after this.
Destruction - Pain and Pleasure Guild

Defraz rr81 Magus
Defrack rr80 Mara
rr6x AM, Sham, Choppa

obamia
Posts: 33

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#38 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:01 pm

The game is not PVE focused but still has plenty of PVE elements, dps AM/Shaman lost their reliable AP regen tool to keep going on long PVE encounters :(

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oaliaen
Posts: 695

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#39 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:02 pm

best patch in 2 years
Silently we bide our time
Soon we'll pay you back
For all the wrongs you've done our kind
For the stabwounds in our backs

scatterthewinds
Posts: 153

Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018

Post#40 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:03 pm

Azarael wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:44 am
scatterthewinds wrote:...
I disagree fundamentally with your assertion, but you knew that.

Warhammer balance is not some mystical piece of engineering which we struggle to understand. We know, broadly, the issues, and how far we've come to rectifying them. Changes are at a rapid pace precisely because those issues are known. Let's take a look at this patch, for example, and the known problems it attempted to aid in / resolve:
  • Shadow Warrior Scout being overshadowed.
  • New 2H Slayer builds struggling with rage drop off target.
  • BW and Marauder overprevalence in warbands.
  • One Knight aura overshadowing the rest.
  • Ancient issues with Runepriest and Zealot related to their DPS specs being under par.
  • Tweaks to skills on SM/BO that are new, but suffer from old, known problems. In general, the reworks are aimed at dealing with old, known problems which were the result of SM/BO not being allowed good supportive specs because "they do damage!!!!!!"
  • AM and Shaman changes link all the way back into those classes failing to compete with others at their level, though the AP drain changes are a response to a known, and ancient, problem with AP management.
  • Witch Hunter / Witch Elf issues related to stealth vs charge.
  • The continued effort to give Order a class comparable to Marauder, the lack of which has hurt warband scale for a long time.
The vast majority of these - if not all of them - are independent changes. Therefore, I see no reason to wait for months, implementing simple changes at a drip rate, because of what I suspect is a conservative mindset.

RoR's community is not, and will never be, homogenous. Those who are more conservatively-minded aren't going to like me as much. That's fine - I can't please everyone, though I will try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.
When things have settled I'll message you on discord or something, there's no point going back and forth here. But needless to say our understandings of the game are very different. For example, I agree one knight aura overshadows the rest, but not the one you think it is. You're not rocking the boat at this stage, you're shooting it with a nuke.

Uthwe

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