Client Changelog 19th August

[Rekkerr]

That's great and all, but I can't really work with "I don't feel x was needed", so I'll help you out by giving you something to argue. Stealth is less useful the greater the engagement size is. That's what the changes are intended to address.

Just add the tactic no one but true Warband heros will ever run, but why add the 5s CD and the AP drain? AP is difficult enough to manage but now after you've finally managed to get around the melee train and your ready to pop you are already at 60% AP. Stack that with every shaman in the game already AP drains you and I might as well stay in the warcamp. If you feel you have to Nerf then do the longer CD but please don't AP starve the classes.

[Azarael]

Wait, what AP drain...?

EDIT: Checked Incognito + Hastened Purgation and it removes the standard 3 AP per second that Incognito always removed. What are you on about here?

[lefze]

Well for a "usefull" Healdebuff Runi you need Magical Crits RR, Rune of Breaking, and put at least 12 Points in the left tree. Meaning you can't get full right tree, can't get AoE M4, can't get Grouprez Ability.

Buffed by a Kotbs you will then have something like a 35% Chance on each hit to put a wound debuff on a hit Target. But your healing will be completely without the chance to have any Healcrits. Also you need quite a lot of INT to even hit the Targets in the first place. You aren't then any Healer Runi anymore.

But you are right that the changed tactic: "Concussive Runes" can be put on AoE Healruni. Still you can't be dishing out group heals and AoE Spam at the same time. Also with only on rune of Battle you are missing the real chance of the Tactic proccing on Rune of Cleave and Rune of Might.

So to put the new Tactic to full use you need to be an AoE DPS Runi near the frontline. Like a Healdebuff Runi, and then as explained in the beginning you aren't a Heal Runi, and you can't simply slap it on.

Also I need to make some tests if this even works on Rune of Battle or even the 2 other Abilties on Right tree as Concussive runes in the past didn't procced on rune of Might.
If you simply play a Heal runi, and put the Heal Debuff Tactic on your Hits have something like a 5% chance to do anything.

Also:
You can't have several Runes of Battle on one character.
So you can't put it on one Kamikaze Slayer. Ofc you can put it on several different Tanks.

Rune of Battle is channel to set up and once it's up you are free to do anything else. Group heal etz.
But my concern is just that it reinforce the meta bomb group even more instead of spreading out the utillity over other classes.

Simple fix would be to just have Rune of Battle be a self buff only and there by giving dps Runie some sweet warband utility. When paired with a SM, RoB and RoM hit every gcd with WW up and new SM drains, you gonna drain some serius amount of morale.

Healdebuff from Rune of Battle while in healing spec isn't really a concern imo. It requires you to dps crit and having Rune of Breaking active. So healing becomes trash if you tries. Thats the major difference.

Most people really don't bother going for 0% chance to be crit, and a knight gives enough crit for the rune to get its job done. It's not like you stay in rune of breaking permanently, play right and you get the healdebuff down at the right moment. And also 4 runies per WB is more than adequate to spread it to the point where it has a rather big impact. Anyways, this isn't something I tried to argue or anything, it's just what was actually successfully used in the past no matter what quirks anyone tries to call on it.

Of course this tactic is a completely different beast as it doesn't even require crits, and can turn out way more problematic.

[neutrino]

Too much theorycrafting. Any PBAOE dps spec that ignores 15% damage from Demon = lol. Any midrange AOE dps spec that ignores both range increase and crit increase from Change = topkek.

RoR.builders - Engineer


RoR.builders - Magus


Proceeding from the foregoing, one can still conclude that the Magus has a little ahead, having one point for the variations. In addition, Magus has access to the ST tree without losing access to the crit. I think they are all right and more or less even with the engineer.

The tornado for indigo swap makes sense (now changing is all AOE) but there isn't a real spirit based quick hitting single cast now to pick on a single player. Rend wind is pretty much it. So changing spec now is all aoe. Who's the idiot that cut the distance on rolling winds. 30ft is like guard range and I used it more on aoe range builds under changing than with rift. I'm ok with the instant 1200 but it most likely will not spread to as many people as it would when the target ran around their group. Should have made it hit something like 400 x 3 to 4 times. Now that I can use rank 4s gain every once in a while the moral change help to make the class a bit more fun.

Can you fix the daemonology firewyrn so that it works and does something cool/useful. It would be killer to do large damage on one or single target then aoe punt/pull.

[Toobad]

Azarael,

I tried out the changes to Ebon Flame yesterday. The Orb by the Keeper takes you to a landing on the tower. A second Orb then takes you into the tower. However, you are immediately attacked by a Hero. Is this how it is intended? No other T4 Epic deals with a Hero, so am thinking something is wrong, or I did something wrong. Appreciate some feedback.

[Natherul]

Azarael,

I tried out the changes to Ebon Flame yesterday. The Orb by the Keeper takes you to a landing on the tower. A second Orb then takes you into the tower. However, you are immediately attacked by a Hero. Is this how it is intended? No other T4 Epic deals with a Hero, so am thinking something is wrong, or I did something wrong. Appreciate some feedback.

If there is no way around it it should be reported -> https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues?state=open

[Danmir]

Engineer
(....)
- Phosphorous Shells is Grenadier 9.

My inner Grenadier Engi shivers with excitement

[Rekkerr]

Wait, what AP drain...?

EDIT: Checked Incognito + Hastened Purgation and it removes the standard 3 AP per second that Incognito always removed. What are you on about here?

Maybe just my imagination but with this update the AP used while in stealth seems to have increased.

[ashton007]

Any chance youll bring back the HP regen tactic for the 10% of SM that like to run the build?

[Faef]

Warband play:
Also death blow dealer. But as warband play is about aoe fulfilling this role required at least one major change.

Problems:
- stealth mechanics;
- lack of AoE pressure;
- don't overtune/kill one playestyle when trying to fix other.

only thing what WE/WH is lacking in WB play is low WS for aoe ability. Make them ignore 25% of armor like KoBts skill or give something like tactics with WS. Or i still don't see any reason to take WE/WH over slayer/choppa. But i like that issue is finally looked for and probably is subject to future changes.
Keep in mind. WE/WH is only mdps with paper armor here. Slayer/Choppa have option to drop rage, have some defensive racial tactics like armor or wounds, WE have meh absorb from crits and WH racial tactics for lolabsorb. I think it's can be fair to be comparable with other mdps in WB while staying supersquishy.

Also about WB play and WS : maybe also as variant can be good to have new set for WB playing which is had lot of WS instead of ini/str as usual. Idk.

Point of this changes was to create fundament for all playstyles without destroying/overtuning one of them. IMO above changes achieved this. Let's focus on tweaking them.

I can understand your concern about dmg and survivability, but this just need time to make conclusions.
On paper lack of WS - go up to ONK and grab PA for sweet WS boost. Use 4 conq, 3 BL, 2 overlord for high WS bonus. I played this setup - 850 str and 720 WS (with PA bonus but it is easy to uphold). Perm 50% armor penetration. If you want perm 25% then your str will be higher.
Lack of survivability - guard, heal, aoe detaunt (you won't spam your aoe when pressured), Elixir of Cauldron, Confusing Movments. Looks solid to me. Will it work? Ask me in few weeks.

Some interesting changes and welcomed, needs time to play out, so far the 3 sec feels a bit light to me, I think this should be closer to or the same as stealther class root/snare breaker/prevention.

Also, i think something that would aid survivability without adding new stuff would be the ability to use Pots and class root/snare breaker from stealth, never understood why you could never do either of those.

It would seem the change wants you in and out of stealth more often, for short burst hit and run, so it would make sense more abilities should be usable that currently arent (even tied to having the tactic slotted if you want, but think thats unnecessary).