Changelog 03/11/16

[Tesq]

Blackguard

- Reordered the Path of Loathing tree. The new order is:

13: None Shall Pass
11: Feeding on Pain
9: Wave of Scorn
7: Anger Drives Me
5: Force of Fury

happy that at least some one other than me that suggested those change liked it, make me a favour give me some feedback about shall not pass cuz i'd like to suggest maybe in future to make it self cast like the kobs vigilance.

[megadeath]

happy that at least some one other than me that suggested those change liked it, make me a favour give me some feedback about shall not pass cuz i'd like to suggest maybe in future to make it self cast like the kobs vigilance.

I have no idea about the Non Shall Pass tbh. I'm running CD.

[thefarthestland]

BG now is a good option

[Tesq]

ye im running too the 2h def build for ORVR, still compared to vigilace that skill suck quite a lot.

[Koha]

Anger drives me at 7 ???
tactic 30% parry and 30% disrupt... do we really want to see more deftards BG ?
the way avoidance works on ROR is gonna make this mandatory for any BG.

If you didn't post a valid counter to this proposal in the balance forums, don't bother whining about these changes now that they are live.

Didn't want to bully, really.

What to explain : 30% disrupt and parry tactics could be taken before, but at the cost of a lot of mastery points. Now at least 30%parry is available to any BG build.
together with the RR parry and disrupt and some items, BG are getting a >50% parry/disrupt passive at 100 hate which a BG can get very quickly and can keep it above 90 easily.
In ROR avoidance has a very important role compared to live (I'm OK with this until avoidance tactics and skills are kept to a reasonable level)...

Not whining neither, just giving an humble advice : I understand this change is giving a lot of satisfaction to BG player but I don't see the balance purpose if this change.
(giving access to aoe snare is the kind of balance change I understand easily)

[TenTonHammer]

Didn't want to bully, really.

What to explain : 30% disrupt and parry tactics could be taken before, but at the cost of a lot of mastery points. Now at least 30%parry is available to any BG build.
together with the RR parry and disrupt and some items, BG are getting a >50% parry/disrupt passive at 100 hate which a BG can get very quickly and can keep it above 90 easily.
In ROR avoidance has a very important role compared to live (I'm OK with this until avoidance tactics and skills are kept to a reasonable level)...

Not whining neither, just giving an humble advice : I understand this change is giving a lot of satisfaction to BG player but I don't see the balance purpose if this change.
(giving access to aoe snare is the kind of balance change I understand easily)

Once again you had 2 weeks to make argument in opposition to these changes in the balance fourms

secondly:

How this helps BG; BG is an inherently selfish tank it suffers from providing very little group utility and CC outside of KD and KB

Furthermore the required mastery point investment for damage mitigation and CC for BG is much higher for BG in relation to other tanks as pointed out by Bozzax the other day:

Specialization points needed for basic guard mitigation / avoidance (~25% Parry or ~15% Block)
KOTBS 3pts
SM 0pts
IB 5pts
BO 0pts, 3pts
Chosen 0pts

Other tanks average: 3
Blackguard: 11

If nothing else this change would more or less standardize the required mastery point cost for access for Avoidance between tanks

And additionally if we were to go by the second option, the 3 point parry tactic would help 2H bg's become more durable if they chose to spec it, making it an alternative tactic option to soul killer

Having deftard tanks with 30-45% parry and disrupt is still nothing when you consider that they are still inferior to BO's and CH's for a variety of reasons and have their main debuffs that are inferior versions of mara's

[Koha]

Once again you had 2 weeks to make argument in opposition to these changes in the balance fourms

Furthermore the required mastery point investment for damage mitigation and CC for BG is much higher for BG in relation to other tanks as pointed out by Bozzax the other day:

Specialization points needed for basic guard mitigation / avoidance (~25% Parry or ~15% Block)
KOTBS 3pts
SM 0pts
IB 5pts
BO 0pts, 3pts
Chosen 0pts

Other tanks average: 3
Blackguard: 11

If nothing else this change would more or less standardize the required mastery point cost for access for Avoidance between tanks

And additionally if we were to go by the second option, the 3 point parry tactic would help 2H bg's become more durable if they chose to spec it, making it an alternative tactic option to soul killer

I saw your post and never though it would be taken seriously.

You cannot compare 25% parry buffs that are skill based to a passive permanent tactic buff.
Chosen 25% parry buff can be parried or taken away and he has to successfullly hit somebody to get it active (melee). it costs PA and a GCD. (is hate generation a problem for BG ? definitively no).
You can take Tanks one by one nothing is really equivalent to what was given just to the BG. (well with RR70 you could already these two tactics and a fair amount of skills)

As far as I remember your main is (was) a BG (according to your previous signatures), not sure you can stay objective on that point.

[Azarael]

Stop discussing balance in changelog topics. The rules are very clear: if you don't oppose the change in the balance forum, you don't post any criticism of it in the patchnotes thread.

[Ninepaces]

Stop discussing balance in changelog topics. The rules are very clear: if you don't oppose the change in the balance forum, you don't post any criticism of it in the patchnotes thread.

I did, and even as the one who has played BG by far the most on this server my comments were more or less ignored. And you locked the other thread so I thought this was the right place to do it. Could you just respond to my comment above please?

[Natherul]

Stop discussing balance in changelog topics. The rules are very clear: if you don't oppose the change in the balance forum, you don't post any criticism of it in the patchnotes thread.

I did, and even as the one who has played BG by far the most on this server my comments were more or less ignored. And you locked the other thread so I thought this was the right place to do it. Could you just respond to my comment above please?

your last message was a statement and not a question? and it may take several patches to bring a class to a point you want. Its better to take smaller steps and analyze.