Changelog 23/08/16

[Bretin]

The issue is we have some self righteous idiots like you, claiming that only those who dont 6v6 are against the wall. I do 6v6, and my opponents ofc know it. I don't give 2 flying **** if you care or believe me; pretty sure the devs do and in the end that's all that matters to me.

I also find it funny that those who are for the wall are mostly premades who run BO and SM. So much for "best tanks in WAR hurr durr" if you can't even deal with punts. Situational awareness takes skill.

Don't mention me again in any of your posts, I don't have patience today for you and that will lead to this thread being completely derailed and, inevitably, locked.

i would rather like to see a warning against your account than this topic being closed as your post has nothing to do with this discussion. i mentioned your name in the context - which matters, remember? - of your prior posts. what about that rule "don't be a ****?". coming into this discussion with nothing but insults isn't very nice man.

[Penril]

The issue is we have some self righteous idiots like you, claiming that only those who dont 6v6 are against the wall. I do 6v6, and my opponents ofc know it. I don't give 2 flying **** if you care or believe me; pretty sure the devs do and in the end that's all that matters to me.

I also find it funny that those who are for the wall are mostly premades who run BO and SM. So much for "best tanks in WAR hurr durr" if you can't even deal with punts. Situational awareness takes skill.

Don't mention me again in any of your posts, I don't have patience today for you and that will lead to this thread being completely derailed and, inevitably, locked.

i would rather like to see a warning against your account than this topic being closed as your post has nothing to do with this discussion. i mentioned your name in the context - which matters, remember? - of your prior posts. what about that rule "don't be a ****?". coming into this discussion with nothing but insults isn't very nice man.

The only one being a **** is you (as usual). If someone disagrees with you: "yeah you don't 6v6, your opinion doesn't count", even though you are completely wrong on that. Just like on that WL thread: if someone likes Loner, you call him useless.

You want to discuss about RoR? Don't be a ****, and bring actual arguments better than "hurr durr well you are useless and bad". We aren't 12 years old.

For the second time, don't mention me in your posts. Then the thread won't be derailed.

[Gobtar]

I honestly think EC should be a PUG only SC, and my stance on 6v6 play was to keep punting BUT to have the pit port you back to one of the portals (rather than free kill).

I always viewed the EC as a quick way to grind emblems not a proving ground. If we still have CW I will be happy, I think it would be nice to have a mini rotation of 6v6 Premade SCs but that is asking for more work for a subculture of WAR.

I also want to thank the Devs for putting in so much work!

[Bretin]

The only one being a **** is you (as usual). If someone disagrees with you: "yeah you don't 6v6, your opinion doesn't count"

not sure what's your problem but somehow i assume that you don't read the posts you are responding to.
In the specific post regarding EC Gumthorr asked the premades about their opinion. I spent a sh*t ton of time playing on that server within a premade and it was enigma who brought a serious competition to RoR, nevermind what you think. i got to know literally any premade which is proven at my stream for example. What i typed is my experience and no matter if your 2 NA groups tend to be unfair, the majority (EU premades) do not. So considering my experience i feel confident enough to say that the problem Jaycub mentioned do not occur between EU premades - the majority of this scene - who fights against each other on an almost daily base.

Yet after his last post i knew what he is on about considering that everyone is able to que it and not just premades. As i don't play i couldn't knew it didn't replace CW 1:1 so again i shared my experience and opinion on it.

What you did on the other hand is, you came in and started to flame & derail. Where are your points and what do you come up with except some insults? When your name got used it was basically a quote of your opinion back then and even in this topic the advice from a dev was that people like you should be quiet and let the premades talk iirc.

Just like on that WL thread: if someone likes Loner, you call him useless.

nice try.

You want to discuss about RoR? Don't be a ****, and bring actual arguments better than "hurr durr well you are useless and bad". We aren't 12 years old.

no i want to share my experience, something you obviously lack.

[Penril]

What you did on the other hand is, you came in and started to flame & derail. Where are your points and what do you come up with except some insults? When your name got used it was basically a quote of your opinion back then and even in this topic the advice from a dev was that people like you should be quiet and let the premades talk iirc.

No, you were implying that me, Jaycub and others didn't do 6v6 and therefore didn't have a say in the matter, which is false. I solo, premade and 6v6, in fact just had one last friday vs Old School (maybe Jaycub was there too since it is his guild, but i'm not sure). Just because we never crossed paths (well, I think we did once when I was solo on my BG and, of course, someone from your group sent me tells after dying in a SC) due to time-zone does not mean you know everything about us.

Just like on that WL thread: if someone likes Loner, you call him useless.

nice try.

That's your usual MO. Sure, sometimes you give nice advice, but you always have to start with things like "that is useless, do this" or "l2play, i will show". Maybe I should link your ban appeal so you read what was posted there again: you are NOT special, no matter how much good advice you sometimes give. No, you didn't bring competitive 6v6 to RoR lol... people did that before you and continued doing that after you left. No, you didn't make Witchbrew famous... some of the best WEs on live used that spec and continued doing so in RoR (even though it wasn't working as on live) and fact is they probably never crashed their clients when they were close to death.

Don't be a ****, simple as that.

You want to discuss about RoR? Don't be a ****, and bring actual arguments better than "hurr durr well you are useless and bad". We aren't 12 years old.

no i want to share my experience, something you obviously lack.

QQ, I lack experience. Teach me how to cheat plz, and how to crash my client when close to death in spite of having 255 renown points (viewtopic.php?f=86&t=14907). Lol, the nerve...

[Danielle]

Was it not also decided and agreed upon, by said premade players, that EC actually was a very lacking candidate for 6v6 only setting in the first place?

To an extent, but ultimately ec was given as the 6v6 scen and as such we gotta make the most of it.

Morf: being able to kill someone from the click of a button has no place in 6v6. No wall results in people hugging wall which is boring and not indicative of a proper 6v6 dm. Also people use eataine/chaos for open 6v6 but what's wrong with having just one scenario that revolves around a deathmatch, no instagib crap 6v6 that only a handful of premades would be brave enough to play anyway?

You seem to have forgotten about CW. Currently EC is a horrible little box where strategic punts are rendered worthless and increasing the gap between guard/guardee is virtually impossible. It was a lazy "fix" to punts being instagibs but as Londo said, expect to see the area mechanics change.

CW has its own issues like the destruction starting area with guards being fairly close to the objective, allowing destruction premades to kite there and reset fights with ease. However that could probably be done away with a lazy fix of somehow changing guard range to only agro on the top of the hills and it's a much better state than EC which is indeed absolutely horrible for any ranged comp. Strategic punts. as you have said are much weaker, also there are very few barriers that can be used to break LoS or improve kiting. However, given that ranged comps are not equal in strength to melee comps anyway due to marauders and WLs it doesn't really change that much at all - since the range comps are unfortunately irrelevant in the meta anyway (If we can talk of a meta since there isn't even that much of a scene yet anyways).

I completely disagree with changing a SC just to cater to a few people who can't deal with being punted. Are we gonna remove the lava from Tor Anroc next?

The problem with Tor Anroc and EC isn't that the possibility of a punt exists and that they are strong. For instance taking the example of the middle point in Gates of Ekrund or Fortress at Nordenwatch, long punts can be extremely effective in those scenarios, where if there is a very succesful punt, it can heavily influence the outcome of the fight. The problem with Tor Anroc and EC is that the scenarios have to be played in a completely silly way, if you want to do anything about avoiding being punted. In EC if the invisible wall didn't exist, people would have to hug the wall and don't move away from it. That's an extremely fun way to play a scenario. In Tor Anroc you probably just AoE the bauble and don't go up the hill and wait for the enemy to make a mistake. If you fight for the bauble directly you expose yourself to easily being punted into the lava with no counterplay other than trying to guess when the enemy is going to use their punt and maximizing your skills that block that punt. Furthermore, while in Nordenwatch, or Ekrund the distance that a player is punted can be crippling due to the length of the run in EC without the wall they would be insta-dead right away and in Tor Anroc they would take massive damage. That seems hardly balanced for the usage of one skill. I don't really think a discussion about BGs, BOrcs and SMs is relevant here. That's like if you would say playing a 6 zealot group is legitimate because they can have a 100% winrate in Caledor Woods by running to the point (spawn is closer, they get there first) and rotating Wind of Insanity. Yes it would work for Caledor Woods, but does that suddenly impact class balance and make the zealot amazing? It doesn't, just like EC without walls shouldn't be used as an argument for the fact that it makes BG more viable. That's the reason I voted for a wall, and the reason I don't queue for Tor Anroc past tier 1. It's a problem with the map that needs to be adressed rather than a map feature that positively affects class balance.

[peterthepan3]

Caledor Woods is cool if there are no guards imo.

@Penril: noone is disputing the importance of strategic punts and situational awareness; but when you are basically pidgeonholed into fighting a certain way - lest you get killed by the click of a button - it doesn't have a place in any scenario being purported as a 6v6. just my 2 c. also if the vast majority of 6v6 players voted to have a wall in the designated 6v6 scenario then that shouldn't be ignored.

i agree with what dani said: "In EC if the invisible wall didn't exist, people would have to hug the wall and don't move away from it. That's an extremely fun way to play a scenario."

[Lindisfarne]

[Penril]

The problem with Tor Anroc and EC isn't that the possibility of a punt exists and that they are strong. For instance taking the example of the middle point in Gates of Ekrund or Fortress at Nordenwatch, long punts can be extremely effective in those scenarios, where if there is a very succesful punt, it can heavily influence the outcome of the fight. The problem with Tor Anroc and EC is that the scenarios have to be played in a completely silly way, if you want to do anything about avoiding being punted. In EC if the invisible wall didn't exist, people would have to hug the wall and don't move away from it. That's an extremely fun way to play a scenario. In Tor Anroc you probably just AoE the bauble and don't go up the hill and wait for the enemy to make a mistake. If you fight for the bauble directly you expose yourself to easily being punted into the lava with no counterplay other than trying to guess when the enemy is going to use their punt and maximizing your skills that block that punt. Furthermore, while in Nordenwatch, or Ekrund the distance that a player is punted can be crippling due to the length of the run in EC without the wall they would be insta-dead right away and in Tor Anroc they would take massive damage. That seems hardly balanced for the usage of one skill.

Ok, THAT is a valid argument. I can understand it; you don't like how people play the SC in order to avoid the punt. Fair enough. Then again, anyone who feels this way should also understand that some people actually enjoy the way the SC is played without walls. Not everyone likes the same things as you do. So I guess that personal taste is not really something to consider when reworking a SC.

[peterthepan3]

That's fair enough. People have different perceptions of how a scenario should be, which was why it was good of Ryan to make a thread I guess.