-Cancelled!!- 3rd 6v6 tournament! Saturday 30th! -cancelled!!-

[peterthepan3]

Well, seeing as how the "competitive 6 man scene" cancelled their tourney rather than possibly look bad with their inability to adapt, I think that anyone who doesn't roll with that group SHOULD feel a bit smug.

You would do well not to make such accusations; that the tourney was closed and people dropped out because of their 'inability to adapt' could not be further from the truth.

Play a 2h tank in a group, compile your results, and tell me if you would honestly want to go into a competitive event, against some of the game's top players, with a 2h tank - knowing that you'd be doing your team a disservice due to taking less of their damage via a worse variant of Guard.

Saying that people are throwing their toys out of the pram, in the face of valid and constructive feedback, is rose-tinted glasses syndrome.

Aside: soloing on a 2h Chosen will not really paint you an accurate picture of what has changed, nor will the ramifications of the change be immediately obvious to you. If (by your own admission) you spend most of your time soloing/pugging, then you won't really feel the difference; if you are grouping up, you will feel the difference. Do not assume that people are reluctant to try stuff out, or lack the capacity to do so, if you cannot grasp the severity/ramifications accurately (due to lack of experience in relevant scale/environment). Not a dig at you btw, and I know you are a capable solo player.

[Luth]

Well, seeing as how the "competitive 6 man scene" cancelled their tourney rather than possibly look bad with their inability to adapt

That argument is invalid. Accordingly, one could also reduce all base healing by 50% (or any other number) and tell others to learn to adapt.
Maybe people should stop using flawed logic and start to analyze whether every 2h tank = DPS tank, which is the reason given here.

Spoiler:

Hot tip: the evidence that 2h tank != DPS tank was already given here.

[adamthelc]

Shame.

Seems like it would have been the ideal environment to really gauge the impact of the change.

I would find it hard to believe there is 0 pouting going on in the decision to cancel, but if people dont want to do it that's their choice.

I have no doubt the change will impact this specific aspect of the game. But that doesnt mean it will destroy it. It might get people who only want to play 2h tanks to stop playing, which could decrease participation in a real way.

Or maybe it could increase ttk to a level that most decent healer will be able to outpace and make it boring.

I am interested to know how people actually think it will be destroyed. Or do people just need time to adjust?

In any case what better way would there have been to really showcase the reallity of the status quo? The fact that this community isnt interested in finding out makes me think there is a little pouting. Cant blame them though, big change seemingly out of no where.

Almost just seems like a way to justify putting 2h tanks in queue as dps. Because before this change it was a bit goofy since a 2h tank could arguably be a better tank than one with a shield in a scenario.

[peterthepan3]

Shame.

Seems like it would have been the ideal environment to really gauge the impact of the change.

I would find it hard to believe there is 0 pouting going on in the decision to cancel, but if people dont want to do it that's their choice.

I have no doubt the change will impact this specific aspect of the game. But that doesnt mean it will destroy it. It might get people who only want to play 2h tanks to stop playing, which could decrease participation in a real way.

Or maybe it could increase ttk to a level that most decent healer will be able to outpace and make it boring.

I am interested to know how people actually think it will be destroyed. Or do people just need time to adjust?

In any case what better way would there have been to really showcase the reallity of the status quo? The fact that this community isnt interested in finding out makes me think there is a little pouting. Cant blame them though, big change seemingly out of no where.

Almost just seems like a way to justify putting 2h tanks in queue as dps. Because before this change it was a bit goofy since a 2h tank could arguably be a better tank than one with a shield in a scenario.

It really isn't too hard to see why: though time to kill is pretty fast if a team is outmatched, it can be pretty slow if teams are equally matched - even with 2h tanks. 2h tank bringing a bad version of Guard will mean people are less inclined to bring them (a 25% guard will simply not cut it versus high DPS groups), resulting in boring double SNB specs, which result in less damage overall = longer, drawn-out fights.

A good offensive tank could literally be the difference between winning and stalemating. SNB is no longer viable for offensive play - bar SM (semi-viable, at best) - which means that offensive tanks in 6v6 are a thing of the past.

[Flavorburst]

Shame.

Seems like it would have been the ideal environment to really gauge the impact of the change.

I would find it hard to believe there is 0 pouting going on in the decision to cancel, but if people dont want to do it that's their choice.

I have no doubt the change will impact this specific aspect of the game. But that doesnt mean it will destroy it. It might get people who only want to play 2h tanks to stop playing, which could decrease participation in a real way.

Or maybe it could increase ttk to a level that most decent healer will be able to outpace and make it boring.

I am interested to know how people actually think it will be destroyed. Or do people just need time to adjust?

In any case what better way would there have been to really showcase the reallity of the status quo? The fact that this community isnt interested in finding out makes me think there is a little pouting. Cant blame them though, big change seemingly out of no where.

Almost just seems like a way to justify putting 2h tanks in queue as dps. Because before this change it was a bit goofy since a 2h tank could arguably be a better tank than one with a shield in a scenario.

I would like to direct you to my previous comment:

"The purpose of a tournament is to play in a competitive setting, not to test things. This change is very drastic and changes a lot of peoples gameplans. They need to adapt to a potentially new meta, which requires practice before competing."

[Zaxxond]

The 6 man community should be ashamed of itself. Adapt, overcome and win. You all have proven with your cowardly actions you are no mere gods. Pug farmers with fragile egos and nerfed buttons. Go to your mammies and drink your moutain dews and eat your hot pockets. In the far reaches of discord, songs sung and tales told will not be of RoR's precious 6 man community.

[Skullgrin]

Accordingly, one could also reduce all base healing by 50% (or any other number) and tell others to learn to adapt.

Hehe, I'd love to see that happen, the forum angst would be EPIC. In the end though, experimental changes to the game should be welcomed and not be outright dismissed. The potential to discover new and interesting versions of gameplay outweigh the temporary inconvenience. Changes can always be rolled back, but the only way to discover new aspects is through experimentation.

Oh, and I agree that 2H can be Tanky as well. Well at least they could be before this...

A good offensive tank could literally be the difference between winning and stalemating. SNB is no longer viable for offensive play - bar SM (semi-viable, at best) - which means that offensive tanks in 6v6 are a thing of the past.

Thing is, you don't know for sure what the new meta will be and the tourney could have been a good way to experiment and now it won't. Who really knows, perhaps the new OP 6 man is 3 2H tanks and 3 pure healers.

The only way to know for sure is to try it out and see.

[Liandel]

Shame.

Seems like it would have been the ideal environment to really gauge the impact of the change.

I would find it hard to believe there is 0 pouting going on in the decision to cancel, but if people dont want to do it that's their choice.

I have no doubt the change will impact this specific aspect of the game. But that doesnt mean it will destroy it. It might get people who only want to play 2h tanks to stop playing, which could decrease participation in a real way.

Or maybe it could increase ttk to a level that most decent healer will be able to outpace and make it boring.

I am interested to know how people actually think it will be destroyed. Or do people just need time to adjust?

In any case what better way would there have been to really showcase the reallity of the status quo? The fact that this community isnt interested in finding out makes me think there is a little pouting. Cant blame them though, big change seemingly out of no where.

Almost just seems like a way to justify putting 2h tanks in queue as dps. Because before this change it was a bit goofy since a 2h tank could arguably be a better tank than one with a shield in a scenario.

Maybe if the devs wanted us to test things, they should have given us a chance to test things before it being pushed live. Having a polarizing patch dropped on our laps out of the blue isn't the same as getting feedback from experienced players in a test setting.

Most people have jobs and lives and probably won't be able to grind out an entire new set of weaponry for the purposes of the 6v6 in a week, too.

Also, again, a competition is not a place for 'testing.' A competition with currency rewards is a place for top tier players to compete. It's not a test server.

[peterthepan3]

Thing is, you don't know for sure what the new meta will be and the tourney could have been a good way to experiment and now it won't. Who really knows, perhaps the new OP 6 man is 3 2H tanks and 3 pure healers.

The only way to know for sure is to try it out and see.

I know with 100% certainty that the 'meta' (because apparently we're all obsessed with meta as of late) won't involve 2h tanks as tanks: losing 25% of your Guard is cataclysmic against comps that know how to focus your guarded target.

[Luth]

Because before this change it was a bit goofy since a 2h tank could arguably be a better tank than one with a shield in a scenario.

There are many other methods of strengthening s&b tanks in small scale, for example cooldown reduction on CC abilities etc.
The change was decided under the wrong assumption that every 2h tank = DPS.
This might be a bit trivial for some, but just because a weapon looks big, it doesn't mean a huge DPS increase by default.