Magus/Engineer class mechanic change proposal

[Mishas]

Hey guys!

After many discussions about damage numbers I find myself feeling that the main hope I had about this RDPS patch is being completely ignored.
Since live I felt that every balance patch the gap between RDPS class mechanics was being reduced.

I love RDPS but for the most part, most behave very similarly in their ST or AoE builds (MSH has a different flavour from other RDPS but still very similar to other MDPS).
I would like to take the chance to propose a change idea for Magus/Engineer classes:

Since both classes depent on "turrets" (I will simplify by just calling them all turrets instead of daemons) why not make this class mechanic about the importance of strategically placement and movement of these turrets. So that this "turrets" matter not only to the class itself but to others it would be interesting that they would have both offensive and defensive effects for the surronding players. I think about the allies buffs like Auras o just like the current pet buff works for the Magus/engineer itself but for everyone instead. I think that even having progressive buff might be interesting in this scenario. For example: X% damage reduction AoE. Min 2% > 4% > 6% > 8% > 10% Max over 10 seconds or so.

Another interesting addition would be the possibility of positioning the turrets other than in melee range (like we currently can with the mines). We could have a tactic added/changed so that it would give us this feature when slotted.

I will just give a few ideas to get the imagination rolling:


All turrets core mechanic

Temporary X% damage buff to all allies surronding the pet for Y seconds. It could be added as a permanent effect for nearby allies or activated on demand as a skill.

ST turret

Allied AoE bonus: +X% strikethrough to all allies in range (for X seconds or while in range)
Enemy debuffs: These could be linked to current pet skills. I would add here a ST incoming 50% heal debuff here.

Hibrid turret

Allied AoE bonus: +X% movement speed
Enemy debuffs: -X% AoE snare

Melee turret

Allied AoE bonus: +X% damage reduction
Enemy debuffs: -X amount of Ini or though reduction maybe?


I will not go deep on what those bonuses should be since the objective of the post is to gauge if such a change would be found interesting or not by other people from the community. Obviously, these bonuses/debuffs would have to be carefully considered not to become OP (specially in scenarios were more than 1 magus/engineer would be in play)

Anyway, what is you opinion?

[lumpi33]

Hey, nice to know. Could you please elaborate the reason for nerfing dps of ST engi and ST magus (compared to live the dps on PTS is now lower on both)? Magus at least has received a teleport.

Both classes are not really the strongest in current ST meta, both classes are not rly wished in warbands because of low burst aoe from the distance.

Is the melee aoe spec - the only way how both classes should be played now?

Both classes were already strong in st spec. Are you even playing the game ?

"Strong". Raw dps numbers were ok (in theory) but mechanically speaking they have never been a threat. Magus/Engies need to stack 3-4 dots + ST direct damage skills rotation for burst. That is a lot of Gdcs already. Now add into consideration disrupts + cleanses + lack of incoming 50% heal debuff.

This is what makes these clases irrelevant vs any other rdps. Sure, 1vs1 they have a nice toolkit but in group content, they just underperform in terms of ST.

AoE is a different subject that its funny but nobody is discussing it. Magus/Engineer want to be wanted in Wbs and overall group content. Still everybody is getting focused on ST for some reason.

Oh I can already see TUP doing tinkerer Engi groups instead of skirmish SWs. I think they have a lot of potential in close range AOE.
Haven't tried a close range Magus yet but the tinkerer Engi plays a bit like a mSH now. The mSH is more radius AOE and jumping on people with more mobility while the tEngi is more fontal cone while having less mobility and more range. They both are pretty tanky. Kinda cool.

I don't think that Magus or Engi have issues with ST damage. They are rather on the strong side.

[Mishas]

Both classes were already strong in st spec. Are you even playing the game ?

"Strong". Raw dps numbers were ok (in theory) but mechanically speaking they have never been a threat. Magus/Engies need to stack 3-4 dots + ST direct damage skills rotation for burst. That is a lot of Gdcs already. Now add into consideration disrupts + cleanses + lack of incoming 50% heal debuff.

This is what makes these clases irrelevant vs any other rdps. Sure, 1vs1 they have a nice toolkit but in group content, they just underperform in terms of ST.

AoE is a different subject that its funny but nobody is discussing it. Magus/Engineer want to be wanted in Wbs and overall group content. Still everybody is getting focused on ST for some reason.

Oh I can already see TUP doing tinkerer Engi groups instead of skirmish SWs. I think they have a lot of potential in close range AOE.
Haven't tried a close range Magus yet but the tinkerer Engi plays a bit like a mSH now. The mSH is more radius AOE and jumping on people with more mobility while the tEngi is more fontal cone while having less mobility and more range. They both are pretty tanky. Kinda cool.

I don't think that Magus or Engi have issues with ST damage. They are rather on the strong side.

Wrong thread

[buerdig]

I agree that it would be nice for daemons/turrets to have a tactic that shares our buff or a way to sacrifice our daemon/turret to provide a unique buff to people in our group/area that is near the daemon/turret for like a 5-10 seconds. It adds another interesting way to be able to keep the benefits for ourselves or sacrifice it for a benefit to others excluding ourselves maybe?

I don't want the current pet buffs to change for either class as I feel they benefit both classes currently than without them. I do agree, the main issue both classes have is value vs other DPS in large group and warband situations. It would be nice to keep the current pet buffs but also maybe add a secondary effect to instabilty/self-destruct or resummoning/redeploy

Destroying still keeps the KD but also spreads chaotic energy/machine parts over your allies granting increased *ideas* for 5-10 seconds making the magus/engineer unable to create a new daemon/turret till it expires. Or using resummon/re deploy, moves the turret/daemon to your location causes us to be snared but grants a speed buff to nearby allies due to the momentum of moving our daemon/turret.

Both our classes have that unique twisted darkpromise set that reduces the CD of the self-destruct to 30 seconds, so I would say the self-destruct route would be the most interesting way to buff people. People who don't want to pve still have access to being able to destroy the turret/daemon for a 5-10 second buff and those who use that set have the option of leaning more into the support role for warbands, groups while giving up BiS pvp gear get to use it faster.

[Mishas]

I agree that it would be nice for daemons/turrets to have a tactic that shares our buff or a way to sacrifice our daemon/turret to provide a unique buff to people in our group/area that is near the daemon/turret for like a 5-10 seconds. It adds another interesting way to be able to keep the benefits for ourselves or sacrifice it for a benefit to others excluding ourselves maybe?

I don't want the current pet buffs to change for either class as I feel they benefit both classes currently than without them. I do agree, the main issue both classes have is value vs other DPS in large group and warband situations. It would be nice to keep the current pet buffs but also maybe add a secondary effect to instabilty/self-destruct or resummoning/redeploy

Destroying still keeps the KD but also spreads chaotic energy/machine parts over your allies granting increased *ideas* for 5-10 seconds making the magus/engineer unable to create a new daemon/turret till it expires. Or using resummon/re deploy, moves the turret/daemon to your location causes us to be snared but grants a speed buff to nearby allies due to the momentum of moving our daemon/turret.

Both our classes have that unique twisted darkpromise set that reduces the CD of the self-destruct to 30 seconds, so I would say the self-destruct route would be the most interesting way to buff people. People who don't want to pve still have access to being able to destroy the turret/daemon for a 5-10 second buff and those who use that set have the option of leaning more into the support role for warbands, groups while giving up BiS pvp gear get to use it faster.

Sounds interesting and gives additional meaning to special itemnization. I like it.