SC system needs a change

[Schett]

First of all I want to thank the devs that are trying to make the game into the better.

But the new sc system have flaws.
In the past I would be able to start the game at random times (EU) morning/day and late night and always being able to get a pop. I loved being able to just start the game and queue a few sc's. I wouldn't care about the comp we had or the enemies had. I was just happy to play the game. And based of the comp I would try to figure out our strategy.
For example we have 0 healers and they have 1-2 healers. The plan would be to rush them down before they are useful. And if we would constantly lose even with that plan. I would just log my healer to balance it.

But now with the current system it don't really matter if I log a class that is needed, because that class is also missing on the opposite faction as well. So even if I try to queue with a class that is in need I will sit in 30min-1h queue before any pop this even happens at primetime sometimes.

My biggest issue is probably in T1 and T2.
I got 8 of my friends join the game because they wanted to try it and play together. But we were not able to queue as a group because it would never pop. Only way to get sc pop was if everyone would soloQ. Which really killed the motivation for them to keep trying to game. Most of them made it to lvl20-30. But they got so tired of having to soloQ and especially in midtier they didn't enjoy being stomped on in rvr. So they were forced to soloQ and solo pve while waiting for pop. No sense to group up.
Now only 2 of them are still playing the game. (1 of them played warhammer previously).
I feel like this is having a big impact on getting new players into the game. If they can't play with their friends or just sit in very long queues that is trying to balance the teams, they will just end up quitting the game.

Don't get me wrong, the new system is great if there's enough players to balance it out. But there have to be a system that turn it of, if there's not enough ppl in queue or you have been in queue after X amount of time. You shouldn't be punished for trying to play with your friends.
Maybe even make it so you can queue 2 different ways that merge with each other. If you just want pop no matter comp you have 1 queue and for those who don't mind waiting and want "perfect" comp have their own queue. But both of the queue's can still end up in same sc.

[Sever1n]

Its not fault of system, people just not interested. They let discordants rot, now sc have same fate of discordants. New days comunity pref 300people lagblob qualityplay because it reaward you anyways even if plankton surfing in pug wb. When weekly events come que is alive, when x2 even was on t2 was alive. People need a carrot. But they not intereting in quality fun for joy of process.

[nocturnalguest]

Just need a small tweak with additional check to launch "as is" after 15 minutes and then retry to launch by previous rules each 10 minutes.
So, 1st, if X qued order Y qued destro and no rules meet for instance creation within 15 minutes it just takes minimal amount of order or destro and creates an instance with equal numbers, priority who goes into instance tied into time in q (longest goes in). Backfilling is on.

2nd, another 1 second check happens that request if q meets basic criterias. if not then it goes on a loop each 10 minutes, if this check says there are enough stuff in q to create proper instance then it switches into this mode and creates "balanced" instances, if not it continues to launch "whatever" rechecking each 10 minutes.

Created unbalanced instance should be more or less over, so 10 minutes should be enough for system to scan q for potential participants.

I believe its pretty simple to implement.

P.S. All the questions about too rigid and strict rules published by RoR team has been ignored and unanswered. Many, myself included, said beforehand that no need in such harsh rules to create an instance. Q time is very important, priority is to launch matches first and then try to launch them as balance as possible. Hard no-go to prevent pops to happen by system design, i personally put all the possible blame into dumb "1 tank 1 heal per sc" lobby, huge mistake to listen to such folks

[lemao]

I personally think they just need to drastically increase the rewards from scs now.
Scs give WAY less renown than rvr and also overall less crests.
There needs to be more more goals to make people press the queue button i.e. increase crests and renown gain, add a weekly like a soulstone by playing x amount of scs/week.

But yeah if you want to play wiht friends at the moment you can basically only play the event sc at weekends at EU prime time...and even then it is not guaranteed to get games anymore. Pretty sad.

[Tushi]

People can argue about what matchmaking/queuing system they think is best all day long, and people do. The simple reality is that there just aren't enough people playing and queuing to support any system properly, and there will always be massive drawbacks to whatever system is implemented due to that lack of players.

The new system was rolled out half-baked with nothing that actually incentivises people to want to queue up for scs. Of course a system that relies on higher numbers to work properly is struggling, when there is nothing to encourage the necessary participation it needs to function. This has led to a destructive cycle that feeds on itself, the queues are getting longer and the matchmaking is deteriorating due to the lack of players needed to allow the system to work as intented. This leads to further frustration and a steeper decline in numbers which, you guessed it, increases queue times even further.

Having said that, going back to the old system as a bandaid fix is also not really a solution imo, as let's be honest, it was awful. 9/10 matches you joined were a waste of time whether you were on the winning or losing side as the rewards were still terrible, and the gameplay experience was just as bad and it haemorrhaged players due to this. Noone wants to be in a terribly balanced match, sure you can try and make the best of a bad situation, but you would still rather not be in that situation to begin with.

The only solution for scs is to actually make it worthwhile for more people to queue up in the first place. It needs to be rewarding enough to sustain a base viable population, when it has that population, it will grow and support itself. If queue times are acceptable, more people will queue on a variety of classes, queue times will get shorter, matchmaking will work better. The odd terrible match will be less frustrating as you haven't just waited 30+ mins for a pop only for it to be a complete dud, and if you've had the misfortune of coming out of a terrible match, your chances of avoiding a case of deja vu in the next match is increased the more people are queuing.

There are myriad ways to improve rewards and encourage participation in scs. Pick any of them.
While we're at it, removing negative stuff like the backfilling of quitter spots would help. You very rarely get backfilled into a good match, there's a reason someone left and vacated that spot after all, and it's never not a negative experience to get thrown into a sc (the overwhelming majority of which are losing) thats already well in progress.

TL:DR. Applying bandaid fixes to scs through matchmaking/queue systems will fix nothing, it will only change the flavour of problems that you have to deal with. Make changes to actually encourage more people to play the gamemode.

[Nameless]

Matchmaking is solid imo but the system to work properly need more ppl in queu.
The real problem is the disparity between orvr reward system and scenarios reward system

At orvr even if you lose you get bag with crests at the end and renown tick. Meanwhile there are often so many ppl, zerg surfers so if heavy outnumbered you could get kill or two which gives quite a renown esp with aao. And at the end there is no feel of loosing while you got kills, renown and crests.

At same time scen mode is super punishing. If you heavily lose you get nothing, hardly can preven being slaughtered and at the end if you had loosing streak you got literally nothing.

So average player will focus on orvr where even without much effort he will gain some reward at the end.

To combat that and bring ppl back to scenarios Reward system need change.

Just make daily task when play 10 scenarios (not win just practice) you gain 40k renown and 60 crests. That is similar amount of reward as passive orvr rewards and will motivate ppl to queu and play scenarios so the matchmaker will have more ppl to work and will make more balanced games

That how easy it is to revive scenarios mode

[joroth]

SC's don't have a place in the current reward system.
Used a premade could get instant pops and earn the best renown per hour in the game. The trade off it was pretty bad for crests. Since the BO buffs and all the reknown food items/linis that got added to coax people into doing the events. Sc's are just a less effective way to play the game. With the new SC system, it just takes too long to find a pop if one archetype isn't playing both sides. Surrender times are too long, most groups afk in base after the first 2 fights so you either sit there waiting for it to end on the winning side, or sit in base waiting to surr on the losing side.

even if you get the bonus for your archetype, you get 25% reknown bonus (still worse than rvr) and 1 extra crest.

Unless you just like SC's or are bored of RVR, there's no real reason to do them if you're trying to progress your char. This isn't 2008 anymore, people will find the most effective way to progress and spam that option.

TL:DR: rvr rewards keep getting better, sc's has remained the same No reason to play them unless you enjoy sc's because of this.

[Rapzel]

Still do not understand how fixing the rewards will improve the quality of the scenarios.
The quality of the matches are still on the same level. What has been achieved is longer queue times and the predicted frustration of playing in a group. Chasing the already scarce 6 man players away once more.
We protested and warned everyone that this would be a broken system and pointed out the flaws people now are experiencing, yet this was implemented without barely any "testing". Incentives have not worked in a long time, why would they start now? What happened with ranked, the rewards there are excellent compared to all other content yet it is dead.
We told you to not make a massive overhaul, but rather small changes and QoL updates, and look where we are now.

Wonder why players question the vision and competence.

[Nameless]

Still do not understand how fixing the rewards will improve the quality of the scenarios.
The quality of the matches are still on the same level. What has been achieved is longer queue times and the predicted frustration of playing in a group. Chasing the already scarce 6 man players away once more.
We protested and warned everyone that this would be a broken system and pointed out the flaws people now are experiencing, yet this was implemented without barely any "testing". Incentives have not worked in a long time, why would they start now? What happened with ranked, the rewards there are excellent compared to all other content yet it is dead.
We told you to not make a massive overhaul, but rather small changes and QoL updates, and look where we are now.

Wonder why players question the vision and competence.

From my view quality of games is much better nowadays. The problem is that i just dont have scen poping off primetime and even at primetime at the week days you got wait time.

[vladerethro]

Because the cost of a endgame gear is massive, people play the most rewarding gamemode.
10K ring + about 10k for the rest... it's ridiculously long (I don't count pve cause I don't do dungeon, most of ppl are here for pvp)
Issue with ranked: you needed BiS to get a chance, but need to play ranked to get BiS (little paradoxal system)
Gear gap may reduce with the equipment rework but we'll see.
In the mean time sc are fun when they pop, but not really a good reward/time ratio for the average pug solo queuer (like me)