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State of Retribution/Slayer

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waerter
Posts: 44

State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#1 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 3:30 am

What purpose did the developers have in mind for Retribution without tactics in its current state?
Currently it is a 5 second channel which can only reflect damage once per second. In what situation is it the best option a Slayer has to use?
Or should I see it as an wasted ability now?

Clearly the patch notes say that Slayer and Choppa should be nerfed in small-scale PVP. And that the goal is to better balance the roles in the long term.
It took the developers 4 months to adapt the tanks. I assume healers take the same amount of time and DPS has twice as many classes. So my estimation are 8-12 Months until the Rework is finished. So what purpose has the Slayer in the meantime?
In large-scale PVP he is clearly outclassed by the Lion (on Order Site). And in small-scale he got this massive nerf. In which scenario can slayers thrive in the next Year until the rework is done? What role have the developers intended for them that no other order class can do better?

And couldn't there have been a better way to adapt the Slayer for small scale than to make his channel essentially useless?

(Maybe as Single Target channel like the Tank Channels, or to let the damage reflect proc more often as de facto Riposte-Channel.)

Unfortunately I can't say anything about the Choppa because I don't play one. Therefore, this post is a bit one-sided.

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Dackjanielz
Posts: 269

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#2 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:32 am

my build got deleted in the last patch and i wasn't even abusing AOE rampage, so good question.

aside from generally punishing the class for existing i have no idea.

Play RDPS instead is my advice, far more reward for far less of a headache.
MDPS on order stinks.

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tromat
Posts: 27

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#3 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:47 am

Dackjanielz wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:32 am
MDPS on order stinks.
White Lion ? :p

Dackjanielz
Posts: 269

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#4 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:51 am

tromat wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:47 am
Dackjanielz wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:32 am
MDPS on order stinks.
White Lion ? :p

Its true WL is performing highly [ makes you wonder why they didnt get nerfed rather than slayer really... ]

But simply "going near" destro blobs as ANY class basically = suicide, the best option is to simply NOT go near the destro blobs.

The only way to function as MDPS is to have tanks and healers glued to you, RDPS doesn't need either and can enjoy themselves, holidays by comparison.

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waerter
Posts: 44

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#5 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:47 am

tromat wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:47 am
Dackjanielz wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:32 am
MDPS on order stinks.
White Lion ? :p
Why do we have 3 MDPS-Classes on order when only 1 is really viable at the moment. Shouldn't all classes be the best for their specific task?
So my question is, what is the specific Task for the Slayer at the moment? Which role should he fulfill until the Rework is done? He was the Primary Frontliner but he isn't no more. And with those nerfs he also has a hard time in small-scale against Destro-MDPS-Groups and with the Quantity on CC on Destro side he also struggles with Sorc and SH-Grps at the moment, because he cannot reach them.
So what should I do with him?

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Sever1n
Posts: 236

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#6 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:54 am

Rdps dont function without melle line, and very bad in tight places. Order was spaming tons of sw, bw, enjies, wh, in ranged specs just to avoid fighting with destro melle blob. It ended that they rarely can go from respawn in sc, or leave the warcamp, or normally push in keep/fort. That logic is done a ton of harm to order as side.

Slay/chopa main str lies in weaponskil maxing, that allow them to work with destro frontline tnx to big armor penetration, and reducing defences with rampage. Lions in pure str/crit build have big problems to mimic that. I always will be fan of mixed balanced wb, few slays, few lions, few bw, and one sw for speading armorshred, pierce, maybe even leading shots. But yeah when old version of rampage made slay blobs core of any order wb and they didnt rely on other clasess that big. Its ended in WL/slay meta to counter insane destro blob/zerging, and other clases was siting on the bench. We often discuss what we have to couter insane destro CC - gtdc, mara stun/pull, ch stugger, celerity, wind of insanity, even melle squigh knockbacks only real answer to this was to form one big slay bomb.

Funny that people still on impresion lions now the kings, from my perspective BW far more deadlier.
Noximilien - AM, Severi - SM, Ravandin - SW, Celebor - WL, Ernwald - WH, Demandred - BG.

Speedyluck
Posts: 37

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#7 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:08 am

this class is dead, its basically choppa with less crit dmg, do less dmg than WL/mara, no pounce, no pull, no 2k finisher, but still suffer rage penalty being much squishier, whats the point to play a slayer now?? its worse than the 2018 marauder.

Dackjanielz
Posts: 269

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#8 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:15 am

Speedyluck wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:08 am this class is dead, its basically choppa with less crit dmg, do less dmg than WL/mara, no pounce, no pull, no 2k finisher, but still suffer rage penalty being much squishier, whats the point to play a slayer now?? its worse than the 2018 marauder.

lol i know right.

When choppa lost GTDC they got like 5 buffs to compensate, slayer on the other hand has been nerfed i think about 4/5 times in a row now.

Ahhh its such comedy, don't even get me started on DPS WP being nerfed - that one actually made me bark with laughter.

As for BW being better, Ya thas precisely my point....play RDPS....It's a much happier life.

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waerter
Posts: 44

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#9 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 1:11 pm

I dont ask for 5 Buffs. For me it would be important that the Slayer can take on his role as a frontliner again, in both Smallscale and Open.
So that Order has the opportunity to counter Mdps-heavy Destro groups and Zergs. I am aware that a complete rebalancing takes time. Therefore, an interim solution for the near future would be important to me. I don't want to do without my Slayer for this time, and I think there are many players who feel the same way.

akisnaakkeli
Posts: 217

Re: State of Retribution/Slayer

Post#10 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 2:13 pm

waerter wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 1:11 pm I dont ask for 5 Buffs. For me it would be important that the Slayer can take on his role as a frontliner again, in both Smallscale and Open.
So that Order has the opportunity to counter Mdps-heavy Destro groups and Zergs. I am aware that a complete rebalancing takes time. Therefore, an interim solution for the near future would be important to me. I don't want to do without my Slayer for this time, and I think there are many players who feel the same way.
Retribution is now like it was live, only doing reflect dmg. Imo Slayer would shine again, if these new changes reverted and ae cap of 9 and aoe heal debuffs back+ Morale dmg cap removed. And Guard Working like it did in Aor meaning no undefendable guard dmg exists and no undefendable attack goes thru morale avoidance skills, except dmg morales and non dmg CC like engi/magus ae stagger. After guard mechanic change bring Rampage to work how it did live, didnt have undefendable guard dmg and rampage didnt ignore Morale avoidances. It was rdclsly powerful before nerf, but now the nerf is too much.

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