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Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

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akisnaakkeli
Posts: 199

Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

Post#1 » Sun May 12, 2024 11:04 am

Divine mend and Khaines Invigoration are Book Specs biggest single target heals and it uses Ap, and Smite Should always give 45 Rf/Se and 15+ for every hit. Fi i want to say on Recent Guilty Soul change 20% AA dmg is very nice addition, but i still think it should heal you or def target, cap the heals to 3 highest? It made/makes Dps Wp work in Rvr and hold his own and do dmg and heal himself without too much stres for tanks or heals AND does the dmg needed for that slot. They ofc had/needed Sigmars Radiance and Transfer essence using Ap and giving Rf/Se.

I say these 2 changes are needed for RoR RvR Survive in some Form. Change to old 1.15s Gcd and reduce aoe back to 9 instead of 24. Healers and Tanks were never designed to handle 1 target being able to hit whole warband. In that Sense the dmg increase is insane, and RoR added Slayer/Choppa Retribution channel hitting 24 and stacking with all. This is obviously the reason why Rof stacking was nerfed to 1 but should be 2. Same With Retribution. Tactic for we/wh is increased to 6 with 9 ae cap. Everybody should be able to do something in RvR Wb's. Crit should be Unnerfed and 8% 2h Staffs, 4-5% Heal Crit 1h's dropping in Lairs. 6% Crit Chests and Boost V-VIII in the game and for 1-2 Handers to Set Bonuses.

Judgement/FoK using 15 Ap and giving 15 rf/se makes sense since These are the only "Throw Axe" Like skills in the game that do consistent dmg. Its obviously for Dps dok/Wp to have any chance against good kiting targets. Loved Guilty soul procs from Smite for that as well, killing and surviving targets.

Grace of Sigmar and Empowered Transfer can be used with shield and if using 2h Dmg is 150% but healing from dmg is down to 100%. Snare removal + Immunity should be able to use with books. 5s Aoe Detaunt for books as well without tactic. Imo 50% Aoe Hd's should be for Dps dok,wp,rp and Zealot. I think Zealot Harbinger should be brought back in some way.

Dok's Original God Version of Aoe Hd now Requires Sanquary Extension Torture skill at 5pts and Torture Tactic at 11pts which is 13 career points. This is Ridikls to Need a tactic for Single target HD when the tactic itself was the Aoe HD. If not aoe Hd tactic back, then SE should be 50% Hd. 11pts tactic shouldnt have anything to do with 5pts and normally 2 points is the Basic like Vigilance or Oprressing Blows and Relentless. 11pts Tactic should be something like Guilty Soul. And Change Bludgeon/Cleave soul to 15% Armour IGnore From the front and make it always Crit but 5s Cd.

Wp has gotten 50% Heal debuff single target lasting 10 seconds and cooldown is 10 seconds. Before RoR it was 25% Heal debuff with 20s Cd. This is good Change for Dps Wp but worst heal debuff in game vs best heal debuff in game before and now original heal debuff and no aoe heal debuff but still need old aoe hd tactic and Sanquinary Extension to change to 50% HD. SE should just be 50% Hd.

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Zxul
Posts: 1448

Re: Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

Post#2 » Sun May 12, 2024 2:42 pm

I suspect that the intention with Judgement/FoK costing mechanic instead of costing ap+ building mechanic was to make the chalice/book dok/wp a third dps dok/wp option, in addition to full dps/snb. Chalice/book does solves the SE/RF problem while being kited quite well, and there are actually a pretty good dps chalices/books in game, both sc ones and purple pve drops.

Problem is, with most nonheal trees abilities being locked behind dw/2h/snb, currently I just can't think of any way of building the spec. Dok specifically had a build option back when Khaine's Imbuiment would proc off any ability, making it Torture only killed the spec however. Guess will have to wait and see what will happen after healers rework.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

akisnaakkeli
Posts: 199

Re: Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

Post#3 » Sun May 12, 2024 7:58 pm

Zxul wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 2:42 pm I suspect that the intention with Judgement/FoK costing mechanic instead of costing ap+ building mechanic was to make the chalice/book dok/wp a third dps dok/wp option, in addition to full dps/snb. Chalice/book does solves the SE/RF problem while being kited quite well, and there are actually a pretty good dps chalices/books in game, both sc ones and purple pve drops.

Problem is, with most nonheal trees abilities being locked behind dw/2h/snb, currently I just can't think of any way of building the spec. Dok specifically had a build option back when Khaine's Imbuiment would proc off any ability, making it Torture only killed the spec however. Guess will have to wait and see what will happen after healers rework.
Khaines Imbuement was kind of meh, i probably wouldnt slot it back when it could crit, or it can still probably crit i just cant remember:D But all who have played dps wp or dual wield dok before shields existed, know that anything that requires them to stay still is very counter intuitive to a thing that needs to hit+do Dmg to Heal himself at all effectively. Thats why Fok/Judgement costing resourses and not giving resourses is just bad design because with 1s cast while moving and good spirit dmg for throw axe skill and 15rf gain wp/dok can keep chasing the kiter and using hot and cleanse on himself on the hope that Quick Escape Procs.

No dps wp/dok ever uses Supplication whilst chasing, only if they are behind something. Luckily we get the first tick whilst running and using it, but maybe change it to 2h version can use it while moving. In fact make 2h/Dual wield Versions of all shield locked skills, at least Sigmars Radiance and fok back to 15 ap 15 resourses back. Actually there might be some but at the moment i cant think anything with positive effect RoR has changed that Limits/Gatekeeps something!

Shield Killed Dual Wield Dok, Aoe HD Tactic removal took Dps dok out of Meta even Before shields because proc nerf on top of the aoe hd removal meant significant dmg loss and while it triggered from a skill that also can be cast while moving and is aoe with 24s duration, so its fair to say if there was dps dok everyone was heal debuffed within 100 ft in 10sec.

If that suddenly is gone you might feel it, kind of like rampage but even more because that was the reason you are wanted. It was gone in a night for so petty reasons and still human pride plaques us today=)

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Rydiak
Posts: 781

Re: Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

Post#4 » Sun May 12, 2024 8:31 pm

Judgement/FoK costing class resources was to counter-balance the addition of the now-removed snare component. Then the devs removed the snare component but did not revert the class resource cost, making it an utterly useless "Throw Axe" ability.
Interested in the Grace playstyle but don't know where to start? Check out my Grace guide!

Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!

Zxul
Posts: 1448

Re: Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

Post#5 » Sun May 12, 2024 8:53 pm

Rydiak wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 8:31 pm Judgement/FoK costing class resources was to counter-balance the addition of the now-removed snare component. Then the devs removed the snare component but did not revert the class resource cost, making it an utterly useless "Throw Axe" ability.
Question is why it was done this way. I highly suspect that it was to promote the chalice/book dps option- other weapon options have their advantages, I suspect that the idea was chalice allowing on demand ranged snare without running out of SE/RF. Problem is too much stuff being locked when using chalice to make a working build.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

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Rydiak
Posts: 781

Re: Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

Post#6 » Sun May 12, 2024 9:14 pm

I can show you exactly why it was done this way :)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V-N ... sp=sharing
Interested in the Grace playstyle but don't know where to start? Check out my Grace guide!

Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!

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yoluigi
Posts: 386

Re: Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

Post#7 » Thu May 16, 2024 2:01 am

Only thing we need fix is the damn channel need to be fix. (bug)

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Ysaran
Posts: 1301

Re: Dps Dok/Wp need at least 1 Ap based Melee Heal,even Book specs get Dm/Ki

Post#8 » Thu May 16, 2024 5:55 am

Rydiak wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 8:31 pm Judgement/FoK costing class resources was to counter-balance the addition of the now-removed snare component. Then the devs removed the snare component but did not revert the class resource cost, making it an utterly useless "Throw Axe" ability.
I do remember that change. Did anynoe make a balance proposal to revert the change? I think that would be helpful
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