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It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

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Talladego
Posts: 180
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Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#41 » Tue May 24, 2022 7:27 pm

NerfedWar wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:24 pm
Omegus wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:17 pm
NerfedWar wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 6:55 pm Having just started playing WAR again I´m finding Sequencer to be sufficient to reduce buttons, and this was the original reason why NB was developed.
I'll bite... are you really the NerfedWar who made NerfedButtons or is this a very well-timed troll account? :D
yeah that's me, although a a couple of others helped massively with later releases that included a UI and cleaning up my messy code. Honestly think we took NB too far, but then again the API was open and someone else would have done it in another addon.
Awesome addon!
Now that you are back maybe you could take a look at why the "Snared" conditional check doesn't seem to work as expected ;D

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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#42 » Tue May 24, 2022 7:30 pm

NerfedWar wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:24 pm
Omegus wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:17 pm
NerfedWar wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 6:55 pm Having just started playing WAR again I´m finding Sequencer to be sufficient to reduce buttons, and this was the original reason why NB was developed.
I'll bite... are you really the NerfedWar who made NerfedButtons or is this a very well-timed troll account? :D
yeah that's me, although a a couple of others helped massively with later releases that included a UI and cleaning up my messy code. Honestly think we took NB too far, but then again the API was open and someone else would have done it in another addon.
Welcome :). And yes, with the API what it was, some form of addon like NB would've happened regardless.
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Minisynn
Posts: 164

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#43 » Tue May 24, 2022 7:48 pm

Talladego wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 6:55 pm
Minisynn wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 6:29 pm
Talladego wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 6:11 pm
Good, then they can focus on things that matter, like making the game fun for everyone and not just elitist pr*cks.
No surprise that the lad basically rebuilding NB piece by piece with an addon suite made to take skill out of the game considers not wanting an addon to play the game for you being an elitist prick
The elitist attitude is not wanting anyone else using an addon that you don't even need yourself, just to have an easier time farming lower-skilled players.
All the while ignoring the impact on server population.
It has nothing to do with wanting to farm lower skill players lol? I want to know that I'm on an even playing field with everyone I'm playing against, even though this game is in no way balanced for small scale, allowing the use of addons which literally handle peoples entire combat decision making process for them removes what little competitive and balanced PvP integrity RoR has
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NerfedWar
Posts: 6

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#44 » Tue May 24, 2022 7:48 pm

Talladego wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:27 pm Now that you are back maybe you could take a look at why the "Snared" conditional check doesn't seem to work as expected ;D
:D :D :D :D :lol: I won´t be touching NB, the ROR dev team have made their decision.

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Amdus
Posts: 115

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#45 » Tue May 24, 2022 8:23 pm

I'm baffled that the NB scapegoat is still being used to justify the population declive. There are many reasons of why the population is not going up, and NB isn't one of them. I would rather have devs implement bots than get NB back. Never liked cheating in videogames when it comes to single player, but multiplayer? It should be obvious that nobody wants that. At first I got amused when I saw the mental gymnastics of people trying to justify NB not being cheating, but now, 3000 threads after, I just feel sad for you. I wonder why everyone in any MMO knows that NB and similar "addons" are cheating but somehow, here, people believes this isn't cheating; Can't tell anymore if it's a massive ego or an unparalleled stupidity.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#46 » Wed May 25, 2022 8:59 am

Gravord wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:20 pm
Talladego wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:17 pm
Gravord wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:03 pm Interesting aproach. So not wanting ppl to use aimbots in shooters or wallhacks would be elitist too. Im intrigued by your statement but i have to admit i fail to see the logic of it.
How is that a relevant analogy?
Aimbots or wallhacks have never been legal in any competitive game afaik.

RoR (or at least WAR:AoR) was never designed to be some prepubescent esport wankfest, so the API allows for many different kinds of QoL and helper addons.
And NB is not legal in RoR now. Matter of time before hammer start swinging, hopefully.
In AoR there was Addon which made you able to ress people without los. So you could ress people in first floor of keep even if you were at highest floor. I used to think NB as a kind of a cheat, but never used it. I did use that ress addon because everybody did. Now i think about it and that ress addon is more of a cheat than NB is. Im 95% sure there is still NB in game but its somewhat secretive who has it so that makes it unfair and for that reason NB probably should be brought back just for more players. I myself cant play after GCD changes and this is first time i have lost any hope's for RoR's survival. I really hope i am wrong on that.

Pls make GCD back to what it was. AoR had 70 dps 1h and 105 dps 2h when rr 80 was max. In RoR max dps 1h is 58 and 2h is 85. That alone makes up for the GCD dmg changes, and game just is too slow atm. It doesnt play smoothly;(
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

Keula
Posts: 93

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#47 » Wed May 25, 2022 10:28 pm

Culexus wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:24 pm Has this thread moved on to rampage and destrozerg yet?

Ok, I'll come back later.
Yeah that's more like page 12 stuff with a slow fade and then a massive resurgence at page 27.
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Paxsanarion
Posts: 302

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#48 » Wed May 25, 2022 11:11 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:59 am
Gravord wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:20 pm
Talladego wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:17 pm

How is that a relevant analogy?
Aimbots or wallhacks have never been legal in any competitive game afaik.

RoR (or at least WAR:AoR) was never designed to be some prepubescent esport wankfest, so the API allows for many different kinds of QoL and helper addons.
And NB is not legal in RoR now. Matter of time before hammer start swinging, hopefully.
In AoR there was Addon which made you able to ress people without los. So you could ress people in first floor of keep even if you were at highest floor. I used to think NB as a kind of a cheat, but never used it. I did use that ress addon because everybody did. Now i think about it and that ress addon is more of a cheat than NB is. Im 95% sure there is still NB in game but its somewhat secretive who has it so that makes it unfair and for that reason NB probably should be brought back just for more players. I myself cant play after GCD changes and this is first time i have lost any hope's for RoR's survival. I really hope i am wrong on that.

Pls make GCD back to what it was. AoR had 70 dps 1h and 105 dps 2h when rr 80 was max. In RoR max dps 1h is 58 and 2h is 85. That alone makes up for the GCD dmg changes, and game just is too slow atm. It doesnt play smoothly;(
I hope you will find a way to enjoy the game again......I have always enjoyed your input :-)

Pax
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Lawmay
Posts: 33

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#49 » Thu May 26, 2022 2:15 am

Amdus wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:23 pm I'm baffled that the NB scapegoat is still being used to justify the population declive. There are many reasons of why the population is not going up, and NB isn't one of them. I would rather have devs implement bots than get NB back. Never liked cheating in videogames when it comes to single player, but multiplayer? It should be obvious that nobody wants that. At first I got amused when I saw the mental gymnastics of people trying to justify NB not being cheating, but now, 3000 threads after, I just feel sad for you. I wonder why everyone in any MMO knows that NB and similar "addons" are cheating but somehow, here, people believes this isn't cheating; Can't tell anymore if it's a massive ego or an unparalleled stupidity.
No, whats baffling is thinking that the NB ban didn't significantly lower the population. Have whatever opinion you want on the addon itself, but the evidence on that is quite clear, the dev team has even admitted it and feel it was worth it to have a game that they, and many others prefer. There are other factors in the population drop, sure, but to say that NB didn't contribute to it is just dishonest, intentionally or not.

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Morradin
Posts: 218

Re: It's time to toss that Hail Mary, devs.

Post#50 » Thu May 26, 2022 2:48 am

Tyrodan wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:14 pm Since a lot of people whine and lament about NB I wanna chime in and say how much I appreciate the NB-ban.

Some time ago, I was looking for a wh guide and stumbled upon one in the depths of this forum, that also covered the NB-topic with some thorough testing. IIRC the dude reported an increase of about 15% in dmg, when you let NB make the decisions which skill would be used best next, rather than doing it yourself. Imagine that, just using an addon is giving you an extra tactic slot with flanking and a 100% hit rate.

Now people say: but everyone can use it, right?

Thing is: NB makes the game a lot more boring, because it is essentially playing it for you. If you don't want that, you're stuck with being at a 15% dmg disadvantage for wh (assuming you're as good at decision-making as the guy from the guide - could be more though).

It's like saying: "Hey Usain Bolt, we're all gonna use motorbikes for the next tournament. But don't worry, you can use one too!" Kinda defeats the purpose of competing against each other, doesn't it?
Not advocating a return to NB. But you and who ever wrote that WH guide, have zero ideas how NB works, if you think NB chooses abilities.

The player chooses the abilities. The player sets up the rotation that the abilities are used in, and if they are good at coding, they can set up conditions. The same player, thanks to NB, would use three buttons to use nine abilities in rotation. Thanks to the quick GCD, (now replaced) this made NB deadly.

All NB did was give the guy with a 10 dollar keyboard and mouse, the same ability to set up a system where max damage can be done with less thinking, that players with gaming mice and keyboards have. Getting rid of NB did not remove the problem. People still use gaming mice, gaming keyboards, and macros. As well as an NB hack by many others.

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