Tank punt Overhauls.

[Panzer80]

Has it ever been proposed that all tank punts be rebalanced with each other in mind? Like others, I appreciate the "no exact mirrors" philosophy, as it makes the game more interesting. However, classes are classes still. For example BG/IB being quasi sister classes and BG having the most over-tuned punt in the game, and IB having a flaccid punt is odd. At best you'd expect IB to have a high arcing punt, and BG to have it's ultra long distance punt, but no. Instead KoTBS/Chosen have mirror high arc punts, and SM/BO have mirror AOE punt, but big discrepancy in secondary punts (SM with shield being second best in game, and BO being useless waste of tactic slot with 2 separate single target punts no longer than the AOE one).

In RoR the veteran use of the punt is to break guard range to kill a softer target. Secondarily, to punt someone back into AOE damage to their death, or to create space to allow an ally to recover HP. The outlier being the infamous AOE punt on SM/BO, which most non SM/BO players despise (it's good for bridges, and push blocks, but those are few between).

My question is why should any class not be able to (maybe not entirely/exactly) be able to cover all these fields of punt usage? Why should one class not get guard break (capability even with THREE punt options), but other classes get it on one punt? Why should the punt of Chosen and KOTBS be sooo potent (to the point of the class being a punt BOT), but another tank be impotent? There's lots of height/distance/force variations in between all the punts to rebalance with. I think tank punt rebalancing would go a long way to improve playability across the tank archetype.

[Grock]

Imo AoE punts should be on Morale abilities only, their impact can be massive in both ways, when used well it can be powerful playmaker destroy enemy formation, interrupting dmg channels, or punting multiple people off ledges, yet when used porrly its just a source of free immunities... Having them as morales is more appropriate and would make people think a bit more about when to use them...

And two tank missing the fundamental tank mechanic that works both defensively and offentisvely, specifically as a dedicated "anti-tank" tool is pretty weird

So yeah i do feel like a rework is long overdue

BG punt has to be toned down, no reason for it to be this long, sometimes you can fly pretty much half of a scenario map...
Base version of KotBS/Chosen punt feels really weak and the tactic is pretty much mandatory as far as i can tell, so maybe do something about it too
IB punt isn't too bad - its better than base version of KobS/Chosen and has 10s CD by default, but im not sure if its strong enough to warrant 25 grudge cost...

BTW one random idea i had a while ago is to add an explicit guard suppression feature (for the duration of airborne status) to tank punts and explain it in the tooltip, so that new players can read it and better understand how to use the ability

[Strakar]

I agree, particularly from a BO/SM perspective missing it in 2h mode. I think SM is easily fixed by switching the skill to 33% chance on block or parry instead of block only. The fact it's in the vaul tree still requires sacrifice from the traditional khaine/hoeth build. A general tuning would be nice, when certain traits become almost a must have it should be looked at.

[EggYolkeo]

For example BG/IB being quasi sister classes and BG having the most over-tuned punt in the game, and IB having a flaccid punt is odd. At best you'd expect IB to have a high arcing punt, and BG to have it's ultra long distance punt, but no.

IB had the exact same long punt as BG on live, but for some reason it's not the same on this server.

[Cyrylius]

With the current SM you get a very good punt in SnB spec, and unless 2H damage is nerfed I don't think giving the spec another tool is really needed. Also I like the idea of SM being viable in small-scale with both specs. Blork on the other hand could use some love with punts, having both lower and defendable punt in SnB.
BG punt is a bit too iconic to straight nerf it, especially as it already has very flat trajectory which makes it pretty reliant on environment. Could be however adjusted to the ib one in some ways: maybe with cooldowns, additional effects, anything.

[diegomess]

give a long punt to the biggest and strongest class BO lore-friendly and it makes sense, neither BG, knight, the puny elf or the midget should long punt lol

[Sinisterror]

give a long punt to the biggest and strongest class BO lore-friendly and it makes sense, neither BG, knight, the puny elf or the midget should long punt lol

I think you had the great idea of making Blorcs have tactic that gives them 50% punt resistance so they are not as effective on Biggest and strongest class. I would add to that tactic making Big Swing single target KB, IB length but punts a bit higher up. And someone said IB had that BG long punt live, i dont remember this being the case but i might be wrong.

[Panzer80]

Imo AoE punts should be on Morale abilities only, their impact can be massive in both ways, when used well it can be powerful playmaker destroy enemy formation, interrupting dmg channels, or punting multiple people off ledges, yet when used porrly its just a source of free immunities... Having them as morales is more appropriate and would make people think a bit more about when to use them...

And two tank missing the fundamental tank mechanic that works both defensively and offentisvely, specifically as a dedicated "anti-tank" tool is pretty weird

So yeah i do feel like a rework is long overdue

BG punt has to be toned down, no reason for it to be this long, sometimes you can fly pretty much half of a scenario map...
Base version of KotBS/Chosen punt feels really weak and the tactic is pretty much mandatory as far as i can tell, so maybe do something about it too
IB punt isn't too bad - its better than base version of KobS/Chosen and has 10s CD by default, but im not sure if its strong enough to warrant 25 grudge cost...

BTW one random idea i had a while ago is to add an explicit guard suppression feature (for the duration of airborne status) to tank punts and explain it in the tooltip, so that new players can read it and better understand how to use the ability

AOE punts on Morales. Boom baby, great idea, and agree to the rest.

[Panzer80]

I agree, particularly from a BO/SM perspective missing it in 2h mode. I think SM is easily fixed by switching the skill to 33% chance on block or parry instead of block only. The fact it's in the vaul tree still requires sacrifice from the traditional khaine/hoeth build. A general tuning would be nice, when certain traits become almost a must have it should be looked at.

My SM certainly agrees )

[Panzer80]

give a long punt to the biggest and strongest class BO lore-friendly and it makes sense, neither BG, knight, the puny elf or the midget should long punt lol

I agree lol. Makes sense.