[City Siege] Renown Gain

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b00n
Posts: 192

[City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#1 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:08 am

Hello,

i suggest to increase the renown gain for city sieges. Why? "You gain 10530 renown" for a win on stage 3 of a 5* city, this is a fight approx 20-30min and u get less than doing a regular scenario.

To which values? I'm not sure but as the city siege is end content i would suggest changing it to 50-60k.

Regards,
Destro: Chosen 85+, Zealot 80+, Sorceress 80+, Dok 80+, BG 80+, Magus 80+, Choppa 80+, WitchElf 80+
Order: SM 64, Warrior Priest 47, AM, BrightWizard, ShadowWarrior, Kotbs

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Collision
Posts: 127

Re: [City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#2 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:23 am

The rp come from how many kills you do during the phase, no ?

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b00n
Posts: 192

Re: [City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#3 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:45 am

Collision wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:23 am The rp come from how many kills you do during the phase, no ?
not sure on this one, it scales with the score i think. In regular scenarios u get the rr for killing separetely.
Destro: Chosen 85+, Zealot 80+, Sorceress 80+, Dok 80+, BG 80+, Magus 80+, Choppa 80+, WitchElf 80+
Order: SM 64, Warrior Priest 47, AM, BrightWizard, ShadowWarrior, Kotbs

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Phantasm
Posts: 669

Re: [City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#4 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:38 am

I kept tracking renown gain from cities using Warboard addon and it was from 70k to 110k for won city. Is it low for character rr70? Judge yourself. Most renown of course come from kills.

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b00n
Posts: 192

Re: [City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#5 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:47 am

Phantasm wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:38 am I kept tracking renown gain from cities using Warboard addon and it was from 70k to 110k for won city. Is it low for character rr70? Judge yourself. Most renown of course come from kills.
again not counting the renown from kills - totally different thing. I'm talking about the renown reward for completing the stage.
Destro: Chosen 85+, Zealot 80+, Sorceress 80+, Dok 80+, BG 80+, Magus 80+, Choppa 80+, WitchElf 80+
Order: SM 64, Warrior Priest 47, AM, BrightWizard, ShadowWarrior, Kotbs

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Fenris78
Posts: 786

Re: [City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#6 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:44 pm

b00n wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:47 am
Phantasm wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:38 am I kept tracking renown gain from cities using Warboard addon and it was from 70k to 110k for won city. Is it low for character rr70? Judge yourself. Most renown of course come from kills.
again not counting the renown from kills - totally different thing. I'm talking about the renown reward for completing the stage.
The renown gained in a regular scenario is exactly the aggregation of renown from kills + win/loss base renown (you will see the total displayed in the scenario window, while the base gain is in the combat log last line).
It works exactly the same for city sc : more kills = more renown.

So its already far more rewarding to do city than regular sc (I dont know about the gain per hour vs regular sc but it as always vastly depends on who is winning).

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b00n
Posts: 192

Re: [City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#7 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:00 pm

Fenris78 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:44 pm
b00n wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:47 am
Phantasm wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:38 am I kept tracking renown gain from cities using Warboard addon and it was from 70k to 110k for won city. Is it low for character rr70? Judge yourself. Most renown of course come from kills.
again not counting the renown from kills - totally different thing. I'm talking about the renown reward for completing the stage.
The renown gained in a regular scenario is exactly the aggregation of renown from kills + win/loss base renown (you will see the total displayed in the scenario window, while the base gain is in the combat log last line).
It works exactly the same for city sc : more kills = more renown.

So its already far more rewarding to do city than regular sc (I dont know about the gain per hour vs regular sc but it as always vastly depends on who is winning).
ok so regarding to your information i suggst to raise the base gain from 10k to 30k-60k
Destro: Chosen 85+, Zealot 80+, Sorceress 80+, Dok 80+, BG 80+, Magus 80+, Choppa 80+, WitchElf 80+
Order: SM 64, Warrior Priest 47, AM, BrightWizard, ShadowWarrior, Kotbs

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 978

Re: [City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#8 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:29 am

It would need to be a base increase in renown for completion. I don't see this happening as it is essentially a participation reward. If you mean only for winners, no, city winners dont need more rewards than they already get, especially considering most city wins are stomps that require 0 effort.

Getting your ass handed to you in a city is always a giant time waste.

Most cities are incredibly one sided and result in few kills compared to competitive ones. You can win but if the enemy sits in the WC the whole time then you get jack all in renown.

Scens are entirely based on winning, Winning scen = good renown rate, losing scens is pretty abysmal.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Fenris78
Posts: 786

Re: [City Siege] Renown Gain

Post#9 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:20 am

CountTalabecland wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:29 am It would need to be a base increase in renown for completion. I don't see this happening as it is essentially a participation reward. If you mean only for winners, no, city winners dont need more rewards than they already get, especially considering most city wins are stomps that require 0 effort.

Getting your ass handed to you in a city is always a giant time waste.

Most cities are incredibly one sided and result in few kills compared to competitive ones. You can win but if the enemy sits in the WC the whole time then you get jack all in renown.

Scens are entirely based on winning, Winning scen = good renown rate, losing scens is pretty abysmal.
Yes and its a shame winning without effort is so much rewarded.

Same issue for ranked.
Degrees of win/loss are absolutely not taken into account ; you can fight for 9 mins like daemon, and got one of your people killed 4 seconds before the end ; same loss as if you throwed the whole match afking on warcamp. So why bother at all, in the end ?

Similar issue now in rvr but for no defense ; where you can happily farm people while your keep is under attack by twice the numbers ; you got both the AAO bonus, and the field of glory ones, since you can control the flags and gank with warbands : you got more kills since you dont have to fight for your keep (no defense needed, and attackers are not rewarded doing PvEdoors) and you can easily do twice the kills in zone, and get far greater reward for losing it, instead of being penalized for not defending.

The general issue is to reward people who dont fight for the right objectives, or who are against far weaker opponents and crush them without fighting.
Yes I get you can penalize the lack of coordination/proper group, but at the same time you also penalize greatly people that just want to play with others, and are at the mercy of the classes balance and distribution. You penalize basically the lack of players, instead of encouraging resistance, on pretty much every aspect of the game.

When a city ends on 400 kills to 5, its clearly a stomp, especially if losing didnt win any goal (flags captured/defended or doors attackers phase 1, one lord killed phase 2, 1 champion killed phase 3 etc.), it's not always the losing side at fault ; maybe they got the last instance while queuing with 6 men groups, and got with unbalanced comp or against full vocal 24-men.

Little to be done about that, but should losing side be such penalized for losing ? Yes, there are still bags with tokens, but if now the renown gain is so much decreased in RvR, cities and sc should be more rewarding even for a loss or people will simply stop playing, since the grind makes no sense (even less after hitting 80).

Same for RvR ; should we really reward outnumbered players who are NOT trying to defend their keep, and encourage the dishearthening ganking with full warbands to farm the AAO, while your zone is getting lost ?
No glory about stomping pugs with 24 men, especially since you dont accomplish something rally useful for your realm in the meanwhile, but you still got far much reward (and probably a bag too) by losing your zone without real fight... Should be greatly reduced reward for kills OUTSIDE of objectives, no glory = no reward.

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