[Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

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Mergrim
Posts: 238

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#111 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:25 pm

TARDIONm wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:41 pm
Mergrim wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:21 am
TARDIONm wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:32 pm half match vs only double slayer , nah, but whatever. I buy this jawely, before new event killed ranked xd .
My slayer is still in lower bracket, so far 11 games 0 with double slayer.From what I saw destro have no problem win vs double slayer vs 2xwe/1we/1squig.

This is not event killing ranked. You can made first reward from event in 1h?
For me, the devs made the wrong decision. After the last patch, the rankings were only on Saturday, I played 1 game, then I waited 40 minutes to get 2 pops which somebody decline.
Currently, it doesn't automatically queue the rest of the players.

Last patch no fix, and extra bug.

How long we wait for season 2? 6month+? Personally, I will not wait for season 3 since I can not see any conclusions.
lol , ok , in lower bracket mb not half match vs double , but in my mmr im see next cituation(Tupak/CluCLu/DwarfofEkrund/Zunig/Narcotix/Ramrog,Doeselhurt/Beutybeast/Jezzacryst/Kodiak/Bodevildje/Blin/Isio/Khazzak/Tengry - its slayers, and 50-60% matches i play vs one of these guys combined) perfect
And? you already win many games vs double slayer when you have 2xWE or 1WE/SH.
Ohh no i play order, why i meet Krima/Advarka/Lucy/Aterdeheal/Jurki/Teefz etc on higher bracker in 70-90% my fight?
This is problem, ranked is dead so you don't have any new ppl on upper bracket.

Things that killed the ranked:
-discord
-1k mmr isnignia drop(I would like to know who from players suggested this)
-devs

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agemennon675
Posts: 500

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#112 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:04 am

Mergrim wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:25 pm
TARDIONm wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:41 pm
Mergrim wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:21 am

My slayer is still in lower bracket, so far 11 games 0 with double slayer.From what I saw destro have no problem win vs double slayer vs 2xwe/1we/1squig.

This is not event killing ranked. You can made first reward from event in 1h?
For me, the devs made the wrong decision. After the last patch, the rankings were only on Saturday, I played 1 game, then I waited 40 minutes to get 2 pops which somebody decline.
Currently, it doesn't automatically queue the rest of the players.

Last patch no fix, and extra bug.

How long we wait for season 2? 6month+? Personally, I will not wait for season 3 since I can not see any conclusions.
lol , ok , in lower bracket mb not half match vs double , but in my mmr im see next cituation(Tupak/CluCLu/DwarfofEkrund/Zunig/Narcotix/Ramrog,Doeselhurt/Beutybeast/Jezzacryst/Kodiak/Bodevildje/Blin/Isio/Khazzak/Tengry - its slayers, and 50-60% matches i play vs one of these guys combined) perfect
And? you already win many games vs double slayer when you have 2xWE or 1WE/SH.
Ohh no i play order, why i meet Krima/Advarka/Lucy/Aterdeheal/Jurki/Teefz etc on higher bracker in 70-90% my fight?
This is problem, ranked is dead so you don't have any new ppl on upper bracket.

Things that killed the ranked:
-discord
-1k mmr isnignia drop(I would like to know who from players suggested this)
-devs
I would add slayers and class balance to that list but whatever...
Destruction: 40-BG / 40-DoK / 40-Chosen / 37-Mara / 37/Sorc / 36-SH / 36-Choppa / 24-Shaman / 16-WE
Order: 40-SW / 40-SM / 40-WP / 40-WL / 39-Kotbs / 38-BW / 33-AM / 22-WH / 16-RP / 12-Slayer

Garamore
Posts: 394

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#113 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:04 am

Slightly left field - isnt the main issue that there is publicly visible ranking? As a game mode its loads of fun but the public rankings drive behaviours that drive people away and stop them from queueing.
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ufthakk
Suspended
Posts: 269

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#114 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:35 am

Sure there are many reasons and u could also blame the players in one or the other way.
But i think the information that there will not be any changes midseason was the final nail in the coffin.

Caduceus
Posts: 653

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#115 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:31 pm

There has been a lot of criticism of the idea to bracket the Ranked playerbase more tightly.

However, I think bracketing is (would have been? Is it truly dead?) essential for the longevity of a Ranked game mode.

Yes, it will increase the time required to get matches, but if the matches are more equal and fair, people will remain on board. When people trust the system, people will remain on board and the playerbase can grow.

Right now, the system cannot be trusted and it is being played at every opportunity. You never know if you're up for a fair match, paired with an MMR assassin, or spin into what is practically a 6-man premade on the other side.

Basically, the system's design and the devs' unwillingness to intervene when clear problems started to form, have allowed a relatively small group of players to use the system in their favor.

That is all fun and good, until the players that are disadvantaged by this simply stop playing.

Trust is the key word. Long queues are worth it if you know there's a fair match at the end. And while queues may be longer at first, good match making will attract people rather than push them away and eventually lead to a healthier playerbase. Though, maybe the damage has already been done.

I've said this before: there were hundreds of people who were willing to give Ranked a try. Where have they all gone?

The quality of matches was sacrificed for quantity. However, as has now become painfully obvious: when that quality drops below a certain threshold, it kills the game.
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

Mergrim
Posts: 238

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#116 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:41 pm

Caduceus wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:31 pm I've said this before: there were hundreds of people who were willing to give Ranked a try. Where have they all gone?
Where? Think there is many ppl like me, but when i see 1-2ppl que for ranked in primetime im out.

Totaly don't care about fair match. For me in top 100 we have maybe 20 ppl that should be there.
Like i write many times before, it's not about skill it's about how to abuse system and know when to que or not.
I want just ranked alive, but if devs change nothing not seen any reason to play game anymore(for me)

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Fenris78
Posts: 786

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#117 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:19 pm

As I previously suggested, it's for me more a question of incentive, and reward for the quality of matches, than the search for more "fairness" with any bracketing system.

While you can indeed separate people with MMR, this indicator is barely relevant in those conditions, because there is simply not enough participation to even out ; since you will only meet always the same 30-40 people, the sampling is simply too poor to hope getting a real balance with it only.

And there are further things you cannot balance, like classes balancing in 6v6 environment ; classes never got balanced that way, and some that have been though as "anticlasses" for another in oRvR may prove themselves either too strong or too weak in small group battles, especially when the goal is to have enough burst to outheal and outdamage the other team in a really short timeframe.

So it leads to a flawed system, with very strong classes with better ST burst than another, better suited classes for surviving than others, and overall you cannot even that out in any other way than rebalancing every class for 6v6, and it will probably damage the average RvR balance we can have.

Or you can try to go 12v12, thus closer to RvR balance, but now you got likely impossible focus since you will have 4 dps + 4 tanks to outheal, and it will quickly become unmanageable for anyone.


But I'm convinced you can achieve far more incentive to play ranked in its current shape with better rewards for a good match, while discouraging killtrading, throwing and overall bad matches/rollovers for both teams (developed in earlier posts #8, #36 and #78 ).

Or you can make insignas drop for each win and double/triple the costs ; this way you will have longer participation, returning and contributing people wich will less likely put themselves on strain when they lose (or abandon altogether), and are more or less rewarded by the quality of their matches so they dont feel they lost 10 minutes getting everything they got and ending penalized for trying hard.

IMO, the MMR should only be here as a tool to sort people out for the matchmaking (and leaderboard reward at the end of season ofc), but making it a wall preventing most players to feel any "serious" progress toward the new objectives you introduced is not the best idea.

Cimba
Posts: 376

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#118 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:46 pm

Mergrim wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:41 pm Where? Think there is many ppl like me, but when i see 1-2ppl que for ranked in primetime im out.
It was the same in the preseason. Noboby wants to sit in que for 30-40 mins to get the ball rolling. Once you have one game going though other people usually que because they figure the next game is only a couple of min away.

Maybe showing how many people are in que isnt that good after all. Removing the MMR loss on a missed pop might also help in that phase. I mean, causing people to wait for 2 min isnt nice but not that big of a deal either. A lot better than the constant restarts that we had in season 1.

Aside from that I find it quite telling how the majority of the people in this thread neglect that you can get insiginias through group ranked. If you dont like the 1k MMR requirement than get a bunch of friends and start doing group ranked.
I mean you have to do the same for every dungeon run. It isnt really that hard.

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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#119 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:52 pm

Caduceus wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:31 pm I've said this before: there were hundreds of people who were willing to give Ranked a try. Where have they all gone?

I've got better things to do than que for 2 hours to have boring 10min fight that ends with one dead + 20min drama in /w after :roll:
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
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Mergrim
Posts: 238

Re: [Ranked]Let's fix ranked games before they die.

Post#120 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:01 pm

Cimba wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:46 pm
Mergrim wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:41 pm Where? Think there is many ppl like me, but when i see 1-2ppl que for ranked in primetime im out.
It was the same in the preseason. Noboby wants to sit in que for 30-40 mins to get the ball rolling. Once you have one game going though other people usually que because they figure the next game is only a couple of min away.

Maybe showing how many people are in que isnt that good after all. Removing the MMR loss on a missed pop might also help in that phase. I mean, causing people to wait for 2 min isnt nice but not that big of a deal either. A lot better than the constant restarts that we had in season 1.

Aside from that I find it quite telling how the majority of the people in this thread neglect that you can get insiginias through group ranked. If you dont like the 1k MMR requirement than get a bunch of friends and start doing group ranked.
I mean you have to do the same for every dungeon run. It isnt really that hard.
Are you serious? collecting a group for 1 hour to play 1 game, which shows the advantage of one side>the end.
Any reason why we have 1k mmr req on solo que and no req in group ranked? there are more skilled players on ranked group?
For me nope.

Remember we have 95% casual players...

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