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Underdog realm and keep respawn

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navis
Posts: 783

Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#1 » Wed May 05, 2021 11:52 pm

Just some of my thoughts and feedback about rvr lately..

I've noticed that it's been harder for underdog realms to mount successful defenses at keeps, I think one of the main contributors has been the way respawns are handled in the lakes. It favors the populated sides, which in some zones, can more easily box the defenders into the warcamp or otherwise out of the keep.
Before, there was much more hope in knowing that if you can reach the keep area and the outer door is still up, you are allowed to res inside. This allows for defenders to increase in numbers.

I know some of you will say that we just need a few more players to kill those players that are camping, that may be true, but the case I'm making is that underdog is still the underdog and if you bring 6 or 12 players, they will bring 18-24 because they just have the numbers.. Unfortunately, I think we are seeing some more keep trading trends in the slower hours of the day.

Suggestions, not really sure. I would say to be more relax in the respawning rules for players in the RvR zones. Or perhaps modify it to work with the underdog mechanic?

ty
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Aethilmar
Posts: 636

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#2 » Thu May 06, 2021 2:07 am

Embrace the existing system which isn't about fights but about character progression. The faster the zone flips the more bag rolls you get. And the contribution system is relatively easy to fulfill. Run a box, cap a flag and/or help on a couple of kills and you should get a roll.

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 979

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#3 » Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 am

Populated keep sieges in the lakes slows down 2 star city sieges happening on repeat. As pointed out above, I think ppl enjoy the current system more because it gets them gear faster. Fort/city definitely happens more than it did before the respawn change.

All in all, destro loses forts anyways so that tends to slow down the campaign.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

TreefAM
Posts: 676

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#4 » Thu May 06, 2021 8:35 am

Yeah I'd rather have the old system back where suiciding on the rams was even easier and payed of much more.

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dalen
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Posts: 619

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#5 » Thu May 06, 2021 8:35 am

Well, the previous system was disliked because there was no room for strategy or trying to stop enemy reinforcements.

If you killed enemies on their way to the keep you just made them get there faster essentially. So no point fighting in the rest of the zone or trying to control routes. Everything just boiled down to a massive doorway funneling instead.
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space44
Posts: 480

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#6 » Fri May 07, 2021 2:26 am

dalen wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:35 am Well, the previous system was disliked because there was no room for strategy or trying to stop enemy reinforcements.

If you killed enemies on their way to the keep you just made them get there faster essentially. So no point fighting in the rest of the zone or trying to control routes. Everything just boiled down to a massive doorway funneling instead.
very linear and tunnel minded. no way to stop reinforcements, no controlling roads and paths to the fort, defiantly no communication, and have the hive mind run in and create a tornado around the fort. just follow the runway lights set up for you to take flight in ease.

theres probably other ways to say it but that's what i always think when T4 RvR unlocks.
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Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#7 » Fri May 07, 2021 1:00 pm

With Dalens reasons it is now a better tactical game to keep defense reinforcements out to take the keep.

If 2-3 organized Warbands make it into inner it is getting harder and harder to successfully Siege. Also then a good fight but in the past it was allways the same.

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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#8 » Fri May 07, 2021 2:37 pm

space44 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:26 am
dalen wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:35 am Well, the previous system was disliked because there was no room for strategy or trying to stop enemy reinforcements.

If you killed enemies on their way to the keep you just made them get there faster essentially. So no point fighting in the rest of the zone or trying to control routes. Everything just boiled down to a massive doorway funneling instead.
very linear and tunnel minded. no way to stop reinforcements, no controlling roads and paths to the fort, defiantly no communication, and have the hive mind run in and create a tornado around the fort. just follow the runway lights set up for you to take flight in ease.

theres probably other ways to say it but that's what i always think when T4 RvR unlocks.

your thought about orvr is linear and tunnel minded.
there's other things than zerg funnel inside keep.
look at the entire zone, not just keep.
divide and conquer is common strategy from underdog.
because attackers trying to cut reinforcement, it's easier dividing zerg.

if leader knows how and followers stop singing 'it's over'
warband with solders can turn tide.
though it's been long time since such happened
that's because players playing farmers, not warriors

sometimes losing is inevitable. death is live of solders.
kill as many b4 you die. drag them into hell with you.
without epic battles followed by heroic death, why do you play war ?
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Amphitere
Posts: 4

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#9 » Fri May 07, 2021 4:01 pm

There are mechanics for the underdog in keep fights.
  1. You can grab a box and fly to the keep, completely avoiding postern blocks.
  2. You can deny the sieging enemy supplies by killing box runners and taking objectives, which denies them ammo for siege guns, keeping your oil up longer.
  3. You can run supply for your side, providing ammo for siege weapons.
  4. You can intercept reinforcements from their warcamp.
They don't replace numbers, nothing really can, but they can buy your realm time for the population to shift, other sieges to finish, etc. What's more, all of the above do get you contribution, so you can console yourself with a nice loot bag if you don't swap the outcome.

navis
Posts: 783

Re: Underdog realm and keep respawn

Post#10 » Thu May 20, 2021 8:50 pm

I thought about some of the responses and I do agree with all the points mentioned. However, I would not describe some of the reasons quite so direly. I'll try to explain.

Just slows down the campaign, gear rewards. I can understand that but there is also a very big percentage of players that routinely play lower alts or just play scenarios.

Just get 2-3 warbands inside the keep ahead of time. We are talking about 5-20 players in RvR on a losing side here.

You can't stop defenders anywhere so therefore no strategy - Could be valid but usually the player does have to get to that area in time before the outer door goes down, which was around the perfect amount of time for some players to get there who are already ready. Not nearly enough time for a whole warband to change zones, including a proper regroup before heading out. We are only talking about a few scragglers and some people who died in wierd positions.

You can use the new Keep npc. Yes but you I don't think you are really understanding the situation about being an underdog in low population times. They have very nasty dps setup not just at posterns, but everywhere you can think of trying to run somewhere. You are farmed.

At the end of the day I think you just need to consider players experience when they are going to be losing in RvR - make life better by not forcing them to run back.
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