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U Wot

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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Goermsi
Posts: 134

Re: U Wot

Post#31 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:10 pm

forsa wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:46 pm
Goermsi wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:38 pm So .. u wana reduce the bo to what ... Waaagh-Spam?
They allrdy have a bad merge in a 6er because of a AOE-smallrange kick and the 3 step mechanic. Some would allrdy say; wasted slot, like shaman.
Duno man ... there are other things wrong in this game. Like double-slayer rampage spam or squigs and sws with range knockdown and so on.
Err, no. Guard, armor debuff, resists+armor/wound/statsteal, snare, roots, and morales are still in the Bo arsenal.
Sm has same mechanic and same small aoe punt.

If you consider 2 slayer or sh/sw kd being a balance issue please create your own balance thread. I will gladly comment on those.
This thread is about U Wot blance issues. Please read the first post and reply to it, ty
Well, you can make all the fuss you want about this one ability, but if you take it away or change it, you will gradually be left with a basic character that is already outclassed by existing tank classes. Unique selling points are necessary and what could fit better to a BO than u wot.
there are bigger problems in this game than this one skill.
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: U Wot

Post#32 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:42 pm

people dismissing u wot b/c its strenght is only really in small scale

but we had KOTBS 2h elemental dmg build gutted b/c of its strength in small scale/1v1

not agreeing with op at all but just saying
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BulletTea2
Posts: 16

Re: U Wot

Post#33 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:37 pm

I'd have more respect for these kind of "nerf this" posts if you did not bring up so many wrong points.

You realize this skill is basically the only way for the 2h BO to get mitigation? If you ignore some toughness / ws buffs. SM gets Wall of Darting Steel which is incredible for 2h.

Also Focused Offence on any tank is never taken in a serious manner, and BO doing compareable dmg to a mdps in glass cannon build? Nice joke.

ScreenFofoBan
Posts: 11

Re: U Wot

Post#34 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:02 pm

Well actually "u wot" is the only way for a 2H BO to compete with his mirror ST dmg output, the SM, and still BO fall down behind them even with that great spell because its harder to balance stats on BO, u need weapon skill and strenght where the sm will just stack strenght to softcap and destroy u, at same skills/stuff SM would win anytime vs a BO "u wot" wont save u its clearly not a "win button" but anyway who care about 1v1 balance, everybody knows the game is not balanced in 1v1, some class are very bad at it, others very good but it wont lead u anywhere, only big scale play is important to actually have an impact and sorry for all BO out there but u gonna be forced to be a boring SnB waaagh bot during wb play, at least u might have some fun soloing with "u wot" ...before u get roll on by a full wb.

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forsa
Posts: 139

Re: U Wot

Post#35 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:19 pm

BulletTea2 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:37 pm I'd have more respect for these kind of "nerf this" posts if you did not bring up so many wrong points.

You realize this skill is basically the only way for the 2h BO to get mitigation? If you ignore some toughness / ws buffs. SM gets Wall of Darting Steel which is incredible for 2h.

Also Focused Offence on any tank is never taken in a serious manner, and BO doing compareable dmg to a mdps in glass cannon build? Nice joke.
I'd have more respect for these kind of posts if you did not bring up so many wrong points.
You realize that WoDs is a channel that preents sm from using ANY skill, while U Wot is clikc and forget morale level buff?
Bo gets mitigation from absorb skill, armor/resist or wounds + healing bellow, follow me lead, saving me hide, morales. Also he has access to the wounds tactic.
Pls enlighten me how can 2h KN get mitigation

Also pls refrain from talking on behalf of all tanks, SM and BO take FO very often.

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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: U Wot

Post#36 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:23 pm

Goermsi wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:38 pm So .. u wana reduce the bo to what ... Waaagh-Spam?
They allrdy have a bad merge in a 6er because of a AOE-smallrange kick and the 3 step mechanic. Some would allrdy say; wasted slot, like shaman.
Duno man ... there are other things wrong in this game. Like double-slayer rampage spam or squigs and sws with range knockdown and so on.
same like swordmaster u just need train wispering winds and spam it + guard/taunt/challenge (what all tanks should do) there is no atehr build posibilities for sm
tree hit kombo was 2h and 1h check pawrun videos and he didnt need black orcs buffs to be good. only in ror u need byffs to be good.
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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space44
Posts: 480

Re: U Wot

Post#37 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:26 pm

i still think its just a guy who was running alone and thought fighting a tank, a BO in this case would be a good idea
Chosen: Roten Plaguelord rr86 | Knight of the Blazing Sun: Lyntyz Jesterknight rr63

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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: U Wot

Post#38 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:34 pm

forsa wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:19 pm
Also pls refrain from talking on behalf of all tanks, SM and BO take FO very often.
In what parallel dimension sm/bo tanks use FO "very often"? At best the tactic is good to hold player aggro in pvp after dying the first time.
Dying is no option.

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forsa
Posts: 139

Re: U Wot

Post#39 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:34 pm

ScreenFofoBan wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:02 pm Well actually "u wot" is the only way for a 2H BO to compete with his mirror ST dmg output, the SM, and still BO fall down behind them even with that great spell because its harder to balance stats on BO, u need weapon skill and strenght where the sm will just stack strenght to softcap and destroy u, at same skills/stuff SM would win anytime vs a BO "u wot" wont save u its clearly not a "win button" but anyway who care about 1v1 balance, everybody knows the game is not balanced in 1v1, some class are very bad at it, others very good but it wont lead u anywhere, only big scale play is important to actually have an impact and sorry for all BO out there but u gonna be forced to be a boring SnB waaagh bot during wb play, at least u might have some fun soloing with "u wot" ...before u get roll on by a full wb.
Well i cant see how "ability to compete with SM" is in any way related to the fact that this skill belongs to games like Vermintide.
As it was specified by TenTonHammer, tactics and abilities were nerfed to the ground while bever being even remotely close to levels of U Wot, and were only used in 1v1.

The thread is not about BO in warband, also U Wot defeinitely helps compared to other tanks.
In city siege st group U wot grants immerse buffs in all needed aspects.

I repeat: i current state u wot is unbalanced, nobrainer, no skill involved or mechanics used.
Click it and you are good to go even if you are SnB.
Not a single skill or even morale can compare in the way how all-around good it is.

Also i have never requested it to be removed, just fixed to the level of other abilities.

mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: U Wot

Post#40 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:14 pm

Spoiler:
forsa wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:11 pm
mubbl wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:48 am
think you forgot about sm and wall of darting steel. which is conacted why "you wot " is in the game. a former dev was the opinion, that the combination snb+ 3 hit combo was to strong, so three hitta got 2h req. to compansate, "you wot" was intreduced later.
dont see what the prob with jugger after you wot is. if you slow the bo afterwards, he cant remove the slow anymore, except he uses subcloak, which means he has a none-set-item on back slot.
No, WoDs is comparable to Can't Hit Me!. Both are channels, with no cooldown that increase defenses and deals damage on successful defense. Both can be cancelled by Taunt, SM's requires 2h and deals lower spirit damage, BO's requires shield and deals higher physical damage.

As for T'ree hit/Ether - well, BO one is much lower in skill tree, but im ok with removing U wot, and buffing T'ree hit to the ED level.
Also, in not 100% sure, but i remember ED being able to use with Snb.
80% move speed debuff is laughable on its own, but if you feel insecure, slot Unstoppable Juggernaut, to sync with U wot debuff ;)
yee, wod and cant hit me are the thingies to compare, still one is bound to snb, no real dmg possible, and one is bound to 2h as the dmg stuff of the class. takeing your argument about place in skill tree...wod is base skill, is sometimes better, since you still can disrupt/dodge enemies you dont face(right?).
indeed you could take unstoppable jugg, but you sac a tactic for a one trick pony. (it only removes slows not makes you immune)
even with tactic jugg and you wot doesnt line up with cd.
i found some images from 2008 that incline ED was also usable in snb, but someone (ror or aor devs) decided it should be bound to 2h.
im not sure what you wanted to say a few posts later with snare was moved to big brawling, but it just snares for 20%. which means following your own words is more or less worthless?

tbh 30% more armor sounds strong, but sadly there is weapon skill and also order is quite potent in armor debuffing, if you want.
in my case i find it way easier to get "magic" dmg number trought the enemy metigation, since noone cares about that.
weapon skill is nice, but not easy to get for tanks on the other hand.
following your argumentations till now, 2h knight can just take raciual bubble tactic or slot bubble m1 or unique m2, mostlikley doesnt make much sense.
but why are we/you talking about knights?
but bubbles are a nice point, cause SM has better bubbles. Same for healing stuff.

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