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[WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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mryay
Posts: 111

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#11 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:38 pm

Vladthedad wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:25 am
Spoiler:
Sundowner wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:31 am
Vladthedad wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:00 am

True, but classes are not supposed to be mirrors. if they were, things would be very boring. WL has things that Mara doesn't, and vice versa.
You were talking about AOE, and in AOE what, in your words would make WL op is what mara already has (and on top of that aoe kd, debuffs and armor pen ignore proc). so if WL would be op with crit tactic, it makes aoe mara op now? :mrgreen:
A good point! I don't think Mara's are OP in AOE, so maybe WL wouldn't be in AOE situations. I think broadly though if say the pet didn't die, it would be quite a big buff to WLs overall (specifically ST, taking your point on AOE).
Yes, it would not make it OP.
This considering the damage of the lion would be considerably reduced during the time of the actual Lion's death
And you can already pretty see what is the damage output of the Lion with Loner tactic (+25% damage) vs Pack Synergy (+50% critical damage with Lion) -> both are mutually exclusive.


@Marisco No this proposal cannot be mirrored with the SH since the mechanism is definitely different and cannot be compared. 4 different pets (which is more "stance" than any class in the game btw), stance bound to the pet, the pet can be summoned exploded/eaten to summon the next immediately. Side note, one thing that should be mirrored from SH is the M2 Squigbeast, but this is another discussion (and storm of denial :lol: ).

@Sundowner Some players like to play with the pet. So, yeah, I'd like to keep it that way ;) . Furthermore, if it is for playing the WL without the pet, better play a slayer or marauder.
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AoR: SW R87, BW/R60+, SM/40+, AM/R50+, WL/R60+, Slayer R40+, DoK/SH/Sorcerer R40+ (+others)

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Evilest
Posts: 168

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#12 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:28 am

I've been calling for WL buffs for a long time. The WL has too many weak points. The pet should be able to use rampage.

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Parallell86
Posts: 241

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#13 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:46 am

mryay wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:09 pm Dear Devs,

Something needs to be done with respect to the low survival of the WL's Lion.

The pet just simply dies too quickly and for a class that is pet dependant for its damage and CC (tactics, abilities, morale,...)
On one part, when it dies, the damage of the Elf is laughable, and it heavily hampers Guardian Spec.
The biggest issue is the unavailability of CC during this time.
If you add the unreliable AI (even with mod)...

So, here is a suggestion.

1. Make the Lion never die until the WL dies
2. When the Lion HP goes to near 0, stun the Lion for 2 seconds, then it goes back to the battle, but the Lion damage (not the Elf) output is lowered by 60% for 8 seconds. HP gets reset
3. Increase Lion's baseline speed by a good 25%
4. Increase the range from where the Lions damage is reduced from 40 feet to 65 feet

Benefits:
- CCs are still available all the time
- The Elf damage output is kept consistent
- The Lion never has to be summoned again except when you switch from a loner.

/discuss
1. Immortal pet that hits like a 2h tank.
2. Not as bad as 1. But the pet in mass RVR, there is a loner tactic for a reason. Why struggle with making the lion impossible to kill? Plus it actually serves as a cheat in my opinion. AOE hits X amount of targets, the pet counts as one. An immortal pet who soak up part of the damage. No thank you.
3. It get increased speed when you use charge not to mention there is a tactic for it. Again you want to make the lion a utility that you can harrass other players with in small scale without having to put yourself in the line of fire. Impossible to outrun, impossible to kill? It can also knock you down and pull you to the player.
4. Look at my final statement in 3.

The WL damage cant be more consistent. Consistently OP. KD, coordinated strike, Cull the weak. Opponent dead.
Summoning the pet is kind of part of the gameplay as a pet class. If this would be implemented I asssume we could do the same with the squigg pet except it really needs a dmaage buff in my opinion. Far weaker than the lion.

Farrul
Posts: 282

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#14 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:43 pm

Parallell86 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:46 am1. Immortal pet that hits like a 2h tank.
2. Not as bad as 1. But the pet in mass RVR, there is a loner tactic for a reason. Why struggle with making the lion impossible to kill? Plus it actually serves as a cheat in my opinion. AOE hits X amount of targets, the pet counts as one. An immortal pet who soak up part of the damage. No thank you.
3. It get increased speed when you use charge not to mention there is a tactic for it. Again you want to make the lion a utility that you can harrass other players with in small scale without having to put yourself in the line of fire. Impossible to outrun, impossible to kill? It can also knock you down and pull you to the player.
4. Look at my final statement in 3.

The WL damage cant be more consistent. Consistently OP. KD, coordinated strike, Cull the weak. Opponent dead.
Summoning the pet is kind of part of the gameplay as a pet class. If this would be implemented I asssume we could do the same with the squigg pet except it really needs a dmaage buff in my opinion. Far weaker than the lion.
Ok let me correct you(RR 81 WL).

1) Lion pet does not hit hard like a 2 hand tank, not even close. My lvl 36 Swordmaster in full merc gear with str pot will hit harder and more bursty than RR81 Lion pet(Which is totally fine, pet should not Hit hard like an actual playable character that specced & geared for damage).

2)Realistically Loner tactic serves one purpose, as a band- aid fix to the fact WL Pet isn't viable outside of a small portion of the game(low scale roaming, 1vs1 etc). When so much of the WL's arsenal is tied to the Pet (tactis, abilities, utility) its obvious this is a big issue for the class. If a core mechanic isn't viable outside of a small part of the game it tells me the class is fundamentally unfinished. Loner tactic as an option would be totally fine, as a requirement it is and will remain poor design. I've never seen any game handle a Pet this bad, in WoW for example Hunter dps Pets had higher survivability and better tools to keep them active(for a reason yes, so that core mechanics of the class are viable)

I agree with you though that Pet shouldn't be immortal, what should happen imho is either a greater survivability buff or a much lowered CD(15 sec cd is ridiculous, it gets instantly deleted in ''real'' content).

3) Speed training is again a mandatory tactic, a requirement for utilizing the Lion. This isn't good design. Therefore asking for a 10-20%(whatever number is needed so that pet can complete a basic task and not fail 100% of the time) is only a reasonable thing to ask for. Speed training should be optional, not a requirment that enables the Lion.

Ok this last comment is clearly based on bias against this class, please play the class before making inaccurate comments. WL cannot use KD and cull the weak, unless he sacrifices either leonine frenzy or force oppurtunity (which no sane Wl will, with one exception). Therefore only a real minority of WLs will use such a rotation(more specifically in a ''goblin hunter'' build 9/9/9 using bloodlord axe +2 sov bonus, )

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space44
Posts: 480

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#15 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:52 pm

saying WL pet has low survival maybe you just dont know how to use the pet. warlions tank in scenarios.
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Collision
Posts: 127

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#16 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:20 pm

"Hello, i want my char over powered because i don't know how to spread the fight to avoid front line dps".

Do you know you can move you char and call back your pet ?

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Jinxypie
Posts: 328

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#17 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:24 pm

So the pet with perma snare, stun and fetch that can already outrun everybody should be even faster and unkillable. Ok.

Bind your Follow button mate.
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Arcrival
Posts: 74

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#18 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:19 pm

Snare and stun depend on stance, fetch if it works can only be done if the pet is moved in on the target and then the range check to the elf is met it would be great if the pet out ran everyone it has 4 legs it should be twice as fast go race your dog and watch him look up at you smiling as if he is wanting you to run faster or you could try locating a lion and see if he catches you 😸
It's OK to heal a Slayer! :mrgreen:

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arorwne
Suspended
Posts: 235

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#19 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:11 pm

Question: Does putting points into Talent Trees affect Pet Stats as it should? Further, maybe if Trained to Threaten gave some of your armor to Lion?

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phononHYPE
Posts: 569

Re: [WL] We need to do something about the pet low survival

Post#20 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:52 pm

mryay wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:09 pm Dear Devs,

Something needs to be done with respect to the low survival of the summoned deamon's magus.

The magus simply dies too quickly and for a summoned creature from the twisting void, having a dead summoner dismisses me.
On one part, when the magus dies, the damage of the deamon (pink, blue, or flamer) is laughable, and effectively drops to zero regardless of the magi spec.
The biggest issue is the unavailability of our master once they are dead in one CC during this time.
If you add the unreliable Human Interface (even with addons)...

So, here is a suggestion.

1. Make the Magus never die until the deamon dies
2. When the Magus HP goes to near 0, stun the Magus for 2 seconds, then it goes back to the battle, but the Magus damage (not the deamon) output is lowered by 60% for 8 seconds. HP gets reset
3. Increase Magus baseline summoning by a good 25%
4. Increase the range from where the Magus damage is applied from 65' to 100', or 85' to 130', or for long range 180' to 250'

Benefits:
- CCs are still available all the time
- The deamon damage output is kept constant
- The Magus never has to be relied on to summon again except when you switch from a loner magus to one with pink/blue/flamer

/discuss*

*Fixed your post.
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