Recent Topics

Ads

6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use

Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
User avatar
zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#21 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:33 pm

M0rw47h wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:35 pm
emiliorv wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:29 pm Run away! is a racial tactic from Gobbos and its nothing related between classes/mirrors
No, not really.
Image
You are both correct: SH has a core "Run Away!" ability, as shown above; but also a core goblin tactic called "RUN AWAY!", which is 25% proc chance for a 30% speed buff with 10 sec cd.

Personally I would not want to mirror rSW to rSH. While rSW has a semi decent AoE damage and a AoE morale drain, rSH is stuck to ST only after the rework. The damage they can do is decent, and you see them running in 6-mans, but that's about it. Both classes have no role in an organised warband when in range spec, but a good SW with good gear can find some utility in a casual warband (or one that's in desperate need of AoE).

1. That would be interesting, but you could get the sam results if Flanking Shot could be usable from any direction when Vengeful.

2. Sounds sensible.

3. Powerful Draw does not underperform. Again, this is 25% armor pen for all your AoE attacks, excluding ST/melee. Sharpened arrers is 25% armor pen for all ranged attacks, excluding melee as long as you have a pet active. This doesn't sounds like big whoop, but any SH/WL knows how iffy pets are in RvR. They die, a lot. And afterwards you have a 30-sec cooldown on your pet so you have to get a new one out, forcing yourself to switch your play style entirely.
Again, SH probably has better variant in 6-man/SC/solo roam, but SW has better one in RvR.

4. "Mirror" is a big nono-word on the suggestions forum. But even then, if we did mirror it I don't see the value. For SW, specs are Skirmish > Assault > Scout. Even for SH, you don't go that deep into Big Shootin unless you feel like cheesing from the backline of the zerg. But sure, If you really want it, ok. You have my blessing to get a DoT that does 400 dmg in 10 seconds IF the target is below 25%.
I do agree this tactic needs a review however, Since it's still set to buff Flaming Arrow as before the SW changes. So a 7-point Scout tactic buffs a 5-point Skirmish tactic. Que? Maybe replace it with Eagle Eye. ;)

5. Maybe the Career builder is not updated, but Lots of Shootin shows as doing 1600 dmg to me (cba to log in and check). Also come on; who goes all the way into a spec for an M4 that only does damage? Again, if you really want it, fine; but this just bad. Hail of Doom, SW/SH Core M4, does 3k damage in 5 seconds (if you wanna be pew pew backboy Legolas), but even then Ambush is the best morale rSW has for organised play. You are hindering your team by not using it at the right time. (say, to slow down incoming melee blob).

6. That makes sense to me, and it does sound lore-friendly: in fantasy steady aim is more associated with hitting a target at a large distance than hitting it in the eye from 60 feet (18 meters :lol: :lol: :lol: ).

I get that you want Scout tree to be better, and it could use a slight tweak here and there, but simply mirroring what SH does is not the way to go.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

Ads
User avatar
Jinxypie
Posts: 328

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#22 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:05 pm

Since you beg for the mirror I hope you will enjoy the pet requirement on run away and armor pen. Also don't forget to ask for reduced range to 65ft and KD nerf so you match SH better🤣
DoK RR80+, Chosen RR80+, Choppa RR70+, SH RR75+ WP RR65+

User avatar
Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#23 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:07 am

Evilest wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:42 pm
Spoiler:
Akalukz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:36 pm
vindicuss wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:36 pm SW is already too strong on both melee and ranged specs.
someone died it seems.... repeatedly
Would you have a WH or a SW in your group.
[/quote]

Why yes I would, as I happen to have one of each :)
-= Agony =-

Neverever
Posts: 193

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#24 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:35 am

mryay wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:03 pm 1. "Fell The Weak" -> remove the restriction on Scout stance. This is by far the best move as it enables immediately the finisher for Skirmish and Assault. Then switch Fell the Weak to 9 in the Scout Tree and Festering Arrow to 13 like for SH (well thought by the balance team)

2. Adjust the range buff given by the Scout stance to 15 feet (like Gas Squig) instead of 10% range

3. Mirror Sharpen Arrears - This is self-explanatory 25% Armor pen on all ranged attacks like the SH. It can replace "Powerful Draw" (Skirmish Tree) as "Powerful Draw" is obviously underperforming compared to with "Sharpen Arrers" and "Shootin' Wif Da Wind"

4. Mirror and Adapt "Extra Toxic Coating" to Enchanted Arrow: keep the 10s lingering poison. Because the "ignore defense" part does not work on Flame Arrow and it is irrelevant since it is on Skirmish tree since last yer -> move the "bypass all victim's resistance" part to "Glass Arrow".

5. Mirror "Lots of Shootin'" to replace "Rain of Steel": Instant 2400 damage like SH

6. Steady Aim: Replace by "+25 feet" instead of "25% critical chances" for 1s increase (rationale: tested/tested and retested on the battlefield/dummies with Tortal DPS --> it is a nerf as the DPS lowers, no burst, and it is currently unplayable both in range and melee, especially in melee).

/discuss
SW is already performing well and even better than SH in some aspects. The points you have suggested sound more like your personal fantasy. For instance, you ask "extra toxic coating" mirrored to an ability which is already performing way better than the SH version.. what you suggested as a balance proposal would make a well performing class a brokenly overpowered one. With all that said, I don't think devs have any intention of playing with SW's current situation anyway

User avatar
mryay
Posts: 111

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#25 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:39 am

Neverever wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:35 am
Spoiler:
mryay wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:03 pm 1. "Fell The Weak" -> remove the restriction on Scout stance. This is by far the best move as it enables immediately the finisher for Skirmish and Assault. Then switch Fell the Weak to 9 in the Scout Tree and Festering Arrow to 13 like for SH (well thought by the balance team)

2. Adjust the range buff given by the Scout stance to 15 feet (like Gas Squig) instead of 10% range

3. Mirror Sharpen Arrears - This is self-explanatory 25% Armor pen on all ranged attacks like the SH. It can replace "Powerful Draw" (Skirmish Tree) as "Powerful Draw" is obviously underperforming compared to with "Sharpen Arrers" and "Shootin' Wif Da Wind"

4. Mirror and Adapt "Extra Toxic Coating" to Enchanted Arrow: keep the 10s lingering poison. Because the "ignore defense" part does not work on Flame Arrow and it is irrelevant since it is on Skirmish tree since last yer -> move the "bypass all victim's resistance" part to "Glass Arrow".

5. Mirror "Lots of Shootin'" to replace "Rain of Steel": Instant 2400 damage like SH

6. Steady Aim: Replace by "+25 feet" instead of "25% critical chances" for 1s increase (rationale: tested/tested and retested on the battlefield/dummies with Tortal DPS --> it is a nerf as the DPS lowers, no burst, and it is currently unplayable both in range and melee, especially in melee).

/discuss
SW is already performing well and even better than SH in some aspects. The points you have suggested sound more like your personal fantasy. For instance, you ask "extra toxic coating" mirrored to an ability which is already performing way better than the SH version.. what you suggested as a balance proposal would make a well performing class a brokenly overpowered one. With all that said, I don't think devs have any intention of playing with SW's current situation anyway
I don't see facts or proposals in your comments, just a point of view.

I'll answer your single point on "extra toxic coating": like above, it is interesting that you say it would "make a well-performing class a brokenly overpowered one" -> because "extra toxic coating" is already an SH bonus. So SH isn't broken but SW would be? It doesn't make any sense.
The difference between Festering Arrow + tactics VS Poison Arrer + tactics would be the only one on the mechanic linked to Vengeance of Nagarythe that turns the FA unavoidable during active VoN. This is considering that base skill values are higher on SW (no pet obviously).
Still if you can prove it would turn the class "unbalanced", I am open to some constructive arguments. For example, if the devs remove the restriction on "Flanking Shot" as it has been suggested in this thread, then this addition on FA is unecessary.

The lists I put on the table are intrinsic to the SW gameplay (stance restriction, VoN, bonus/malus), mainly Scout, which can be easily compared to SH's path of BS since it is a single target tree and alternative specs (where Scout/BS is main) have similar advantages/impediments.
I play both SW and SH. And I claim that SH is noticeably performing better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RoR: SW 82, AM Heal RR51
AoR: SW R87, BW/R60+, SM/40+, AM/R50+, WL/R60+, Slayer R40+, DoK/SH/Sorcerer R40+ (+others)

nonfactor
Posts: 160

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#26 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:06 pm

first of all, how dare you :roll:

where are those hordes of ranged squig herders carrying games? where are those rsh 6men? why arent rshs topping kills in orvr lakes or cities? why arent they dominating rankeds?

because rsh became a sort of boogeyman, everyone talks about how the class has everything yet its presence is unnoticeable. what warrants sw to get those buffs you are asking for? the reason why sh gets those things because the class is locked into 65ft range (of course you can use the gas squig for mere 15ft if you want to lose a third of your damage) while sw gets access to 100ft 3s kd, stacking broadhead arrows 100ft range, 100ft spiral fletched arrow etc.

lyncher12
Posts: 542

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#27 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:36 pm

the class is annoying but yea it doesn't do much and the fotm people playing it don't even move when you walk up to them

nonfactor
Posts: 160

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#28 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:46 pm

annoying like a fly yet easy to swat

Ads
User avatar
teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#29 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:41 pm

emiliorv wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:00 pm Much better:
1- Mirror the RKD nerf to SW and drop it from 3sec => 2 sec

end
How about we mirror all CCs and pulls? :)

SW will have to get AOE KD, pull, single KD, and WL pet KD would be made core, etc.

User avatar
teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: 6 simple changes to bring Shadow Warrior closer to SH

Post#30 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:42 pm

Jinxypie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:05 pm Since you beg for the mirror I hope you will enjoy the pet requirement on run away and armor pen. Also don't forget to ask for reduced range to 65ft and KD nerf so you match SH better🤣
SW doesn't even get Run Away. What game are you playing?
zulnam wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:33 pm 4. "Mirror" is a big nono-word on the suggestions forum.
True - so long as it's about mirroring things to Order from Destro.

But Destro getting RKD, Pounce, AM Desperation, Ranged Finishers, better Runefang equivalent, extra CD reducers, some IB buffs?

That's fine :)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sullemunk and 19 guests