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2H Knight Suggestions

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zulnam
Posts: 760

2H Knight Suggestions

Post#1 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:27 pm

Knight is an awesome snb tank. Yet it is still poorly represented on Order, a faction that is already struggling with tank population (as seen on the latest Q&A).

SnB is fine. Doesn’t need anything more: but even people that play utility roles like to have a viable dps spec to blow steam, and not everyone has time to invest in gearing up multiple characters. At the same time, the following suggestions are also meant to make 2H knight more fun to play. While the class's primary role will always be that of SnB tank (as it should), having a fun 2H spec will make more people chose to main this class; people who will, willingly or due to necessity, join warbands as SnB.

Here you can see an image of the proposed changes and below that is a written list with some explanations.
Spoiler:
Image

- Myrmidia’s Fury and Staggering Impact switch places.
Spoiler:
This is so that the following changes seem more fair as they will bring 2H knight roughly to the same level as other Order 2H tanks, who deal more damage and also have their channel in the 13-slot.
- Staggering Impact moved to 9-slot; now deals 220 damage to all enemies within 30 feet. Debuff removed. Direct damage. Cooldown reduced to 10 seconds.
Spoiler:
The debuff has very little use and not worth 13 points; we are a faction overflowing with rdps, two thirds of which who have Pierce Defenses as a core tactic; A better debuff, IMO, that takes place when the target defends, which means the target either takes dmg or a 15% block/parry/dodge debuff; unlike Staggering Impact which is an ‘all or nothing’ ability (can be defended).
- Efficient Swings is moved to core tactics (or removed).
Spoiler:
An 11-point tactic to auto-dispell taunts on what is arguably the lowest hitting dps spec in the game really just adds insult to injury. Not useful; really it can either stay or go.
- Solar Blade new 11-point tactic: when wielding a great weapon, increases damage by 10% and parry by 5%.
Spoiler:
10% damage increase is just what knight needs to pump up those rookie numbers, while 5% parry will synergise well with Runefang. There are only two tank classes that don’t have great weapon tactic in their 2H tree in this game: Knights and Blackguards. Blackguard does not need it, having an already very strong 2H spec; Knight, on the other hand...
- Myrmidia’s Fury moved to 13-slot; now also ignores 25% of target’s armor.
Spoiler:
Helps separate Knight more from Chosen and gives their channel ability it’s own spin (only 2H tank channel in the game not to have a spin to it (IB has crit, BG gives hatred, SM/Ch spirit, BO hits faster n harder); provably worse than 3 Precision Strikes). At the same time it justifies the move to a 13-slot tactic and ensures a knight cannot go big deeps channel as well as all the utility.
This might seem like a huge buff, but it actually isn't. 25% armor pen would bring it on par with Precission Strike; making it better than spamming 3xPS only in terms of AP. The fact that MF needs 6 crits to reach max potential will still mean it has less chances of doing max damage than 3xPS.
To conclude, these changes will guarantee that there is a reason, any reason, to invest more than 9 points into Path of Conquest. An apt 2H spec will help with the class popularity and increase number of people maining Knight, also directly helping with Order tank population.


Thank you for your time.
Last edited by zulnam on Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

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nebelwerfer
Posts: 646

Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#2 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:27 pm

I agree with buffing efficient swings, it really was better before but that is not saying much cuz atm it is garbage :lol:

Giving them greatweapon mastery tactic however, i mean i understand that they could not have it because runefang but now that runefang is bad, I guess so?

disagree with removing the debuff from staggering impact, i enjoyed playing 2h kobs so much when i could break into the frontline and use it from within the enemy frontlines, debuffing all. it is very useful on its own. I'd say its worth going above 9 points when playing 2h in orvr because the value you get is so big.

And i dont think they need more aoe damage, their aoe aura (which user-friendlyness should be improved and will be i think) helps to do this, it stack up nicely with staggering impact and biting blade, and they have arcing swing which is already relativly short CD to deal some sustained aoe damage and reduce enemies chance to defend by 10% + 5% less parry which is nice.
Spoiler:
this was a quite enjoyable build with fourth tactic being OLD runefang and another kobs in group for orvr https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,3094,3070
Buffing myrmidias fury is a good idea. But to ignore armor, idk. Just feels like you are trying to patch a wound left by runefang, which im not sure i support..

In any case interesting stuff :D

Rapzel
Posts: 390

Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#3 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:51 pm

Full 1vs1 balance suggestion GL HF

User avatar
zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#4 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:04 pm

nebelwerfer wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:27 pm Giving them greatweapon mastery tactic however, i mean i understand that they could not have it because runefang but now that runefang is bad, I guess so?
Yes, the 5% would help with Runefang. To give an example; My knight (in 2h spec) has 22% parry from renown points + gear. This would raise it to 27%. Now, i absolutely hate, HATE, to compare classes among themselves. But lets do it anyway. The only other class to have a similar runefang ability, Chosen, also has a self buff for 25% parry that lasts 20 seconds. For them, it makes sense to not have the 10%dmg/5%parry (a chosen with 22% like me, using that ability, reaches 47% parry. Not bad).

nebelwerfer wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:27 pm Buffing myrmidias fury is a good idea. But to ignore armor, idk. Just feels like you are trying to patch a wound left by runefang, which im not sure i support..
I also thought about this a lot and landed on armor pen since this is something knight already has, so it's on-theme. Remember, all 2H tank channels have something special: IB has crit chance; BG gives hatred on crit; SM does spirit; Chosen also does spirit (with tactic that als gives 15% crit); BO hits faster and for more damage.

Of course, we could mix these two subjects in a single change if we mirrored more from Chosen to Knight, and give Knights as well a tactic that gives 15% crit and turns MF into elemental damage. Mirroring suggestions seem less likely to be taken into account though.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#5 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:36 pm

Also restore the old Runefang OR give back Runefang the str component as well. It was THE knight "damage/burst" when Runefang procced then you had a short time frame to do some dps... it was a great mechanic! Maybe keep the "current" Runefang and rename it to something else, its a good defensive tactic as it is now, but we need the offensive version of Runefang back.
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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yoluigi
Posts: 369
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Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#6 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:57 pm

This would make sense hope dev takes into account.

Collision
Posts: 127

Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#7 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:55 pm

So you want the tankiest 2h class to dps ? You can't have everything...2h kotbs are support class, not a dps dealer. Go for a IB or a SM if you want to kill people.

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yoluigi
Posts: 369
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Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#8 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:29 pm

Collision wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:55 pm So you want the tankiest 2h class to dps ? You can't have everything...2h kotbs are support class, not a dps dealer. Go for a IB or a SM if you want to kill people.
lol soo let's make a whole tree almost useless and make chosen that path of Dread useless soo it can be equal to knight 2h **** build... Common man what is the point of saying that. It needs some kind utility on that tree right now it's useless. It's about improving the game even with some small buff utility it will never be as good dps as other 2h tanks anyway.

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Earthcake
Posts: 251

Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#9 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:17 pm

At that point I d support any order tank buff, so more ppl play one.

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sharpblader
Posts: 298

Re: 2H Knight Suggestions

Post#10 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:19 pm

:?:
Collision wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:55 pm So you want the tankiest 2h class to dps ? You can't have everything...2h kotbs are support class, not a dps dealer. Go for a IB or a SM if you want to kill people.
Since when did Knight become the tankiest 2h class?

Arguably its the only class where if you wield a 2h you get zero defensive abilities outside passive auras.

Now having said that, knight is very strong in every mode of the game, even solo. A flat damage increase will make them imbalanced because of how the class can function.

I don't understand why people ask for old runefang back. It was OP especially paired with Emp Champ and imho deserved a nerf. I believe they were about to remove it altogether but it was so core to the 2h knight identity that they just lowered and changed to two stats on it.

Efficient swings is not as useless as some might think. Its one or those tactics which can help put some pressure in niche situations.

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