Wp 2h DPS the worst class in the game?

[yoluigi]

Pretty much what people roll the class say is : "I'm having a hard time making my 2h work right"

RULES dont talk about how your good with your dps dok and how you would play wp dps they have a lot of different abilities and atm dok dps is very good where it is.
I will write a few things why bellow, but we already know them been said a million times . No stupid argument please.
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Let's examine why is that.

Why does WP 2h perform poorly or average? (Dok share some stuff but have something to work around it for utility etc)

1.Don't aoe dps better than other aoe melee class. Even if I spam smite and put Sigmar shield on my self am not gona out dps other slayer and the gameplay is extremely boring)
But atm that is the only way to play the class. As for dok they can do the same but a bit less dps but they have their 50% anti heal on critt on any abilities soo its better in group utility than a small dot extra dmg)
-Sigmar shield in an other case is useless unless your against a wb spaming smite it just drains your RF. Sigmar shield is super good for grace shield but useless overall for 2h dps. Cant self heal if RF is to 0

2. It's not better single target than melee class (WL,WH etc) (similar to dok)

3.Don't have the mobility as other dps class.(same as dok)
4. Not as good for solo roaming as other hybrid class that has ap drain (shamans, Archmage, Dok dps) Why dok? See below

5.Not alot utility for groups (aura tactic can be acquired as healer wp) Dok have better aura.(slow aura)
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Comparing Dok DPS (why dps Dok perform better than Wp 2h)

-They have better Resource management ( ap drain Pillage essence, even Devour essence compare to Sigmar Shield) meaning more abilities can be use, so more dps and survivability in the long run.
-They have 10% passive parry buff (dual wield) With -10% parry debuff help a lot on strike-through.(warding strike) ( more single target dps efficient also help team dps the target)

But WP got 10% block and an extra 10 parry strike-throught on 2h right? Well right now it's been bugged for 5month (github) Soo no.

-Better tap heal builds .(with Empowered Transfer extremely tanky) Devour essence been usefull compare to Sigmar shield.
-More tanky overall With more tactics option. (not stuck with the same 4 tactics)
-Better utility aura having something that give slow 20% is very good when chasing a group running for only 25 less dmg.
-They have better build for duo's (give action points to the defensive target, better debuff on enemies)
-Duel weild meaning faster attacks more chance to proc aura,abilities, weapon proc= more dps + passive 10 parry buff

+Having 2 extra abilities been usefull pillage essence and sanguinary and alot of spells works with cripple making it more room for strategy than just having a 40% slow.

Solution?

1.Biggest fix would be to have an extra tactic slot. The only way i can see it is bludgeon proc 50% haste. Unless we fuse tactics but i dont think that would work.
(Would free to have tactics that give more RF soo better management of resource)

2.Surivability Only way i can see this is changing Guilty soul to also drain health but that would not fix the problem with managing resource soo the obove statement would be better.

3.Lack of strike-throught, there could be many option here like sigmar shield for 2h proc better strikethrought on the target but the heal only proc every 1-2 seconds. (like that would not ruin our RF resource draining it to the toilet. Or somekind of Ap drain to RF to help managing resource.

You could say hey AM is the less good healer in wb yes that is true but they are the best class for solo roaming.
What about 2h WP what they are good at. Well before they were extremely tanky with Sigmar radiance but now its just for shield.

So the question is " Why the f?&* play this class?" Right now better off playing grace shield unless someday it gets some change.
You can vote for the change you think would be more interesting to see but i dont think will be any change obviously this spec never been tested on at the endgame gear.
(Great for leveling for after r40 goodluck)

Dont tell me that "the game is balance around 24man" Well a SM can out dps me in city and out heal me and that is just one example there really no reason to bring a 2h wp competitively. Unless you know the guy and he get an invite.
Right now and we all know it order need more melee front line and making that spec viable would make balancing order better. (too many roll ranged)

The vote will be only open for 30 days.

[Rydiak]

I would like Guilty Soul to proc on Soulfire/DoT ticks. That would help the up-time of the tactic immensely, and would thus help improve the sustained DPS of the spec.

[mekal]

"rules dont talk about dok"
>proceeds to talk about dok in every statement

sounds like you just want an echo chamber dude

though i will say this dok and wp as dps have no place in this game anymore they were extremely niche befor the nerfs but now if you take one over another dps youre just gimping your team

[teiloh]

Some kind of movement speed ability or tactic would work well with Wrath WP imo, and Order generally lacks them

[Mystry]

Save for a brief time when an ex-staff member considered Wrath WP to be their baby to be fixed, 2h WP has never been viable in any way. Depressing. It needs so much to make it even on par with other DPS that I'm positive it'll never happen too. The mentality of hybrid tax is firmly entrenched around here.

[uanaka]

I'd also like to add my $0.02 about dps wp too, I agree with Rydiak's above suggestion about allowing Soulfire dot ticks to help proc Guilty Soul as well, I'm not sure about other DoTs as that may be too many potential proc chances. And yes, I do realize you can stack up guilty soul procs pretty easily by using your WW-ability and spamming smite into a large group, but I think that's a waste of that ability purely to ramp up damage and building stacks.

Another possible change I'd like to recommend is allowing white damage/hammer hit crits to also proc guilty soul because at the moment they do not. Due to the slower damage, harder hits, (relative to their dok counterparts) being parried is very punishing so allowing the crit hits that go through help maintain guilty soul could be good too. Otherwise, a slight bump to their % strikethrough could also be nice.

I don't think they really need a movement speed ability because that could be too strong given their ability to self sustain so readily with their lifetaps. While it's not perfect they do have their snare break and can flee + double AP pot if they really needed to. Additionally, the new change to their hammer has a small snare that can help.

[lyncher12]

make guilty soul apply to all damage not just wrath

[Mystry]

I'd also like to add my $0.02 about dps wp too, I agree with Rydiak's above suggestion about allowing Soulfire dot ticks to help proc Guilty Soul as well, I'm not sure about other DoTs as that may be too many potential proc chances. And yes, I do realize you can stack up guilty soul procs pretty easily by using your WW-ability and spamming smite into a large group, but I think that's a waste of that ability purely to ramp up damage and building stacks.

Another possible change I'd like to recommend is allowing white damage/hammer hit crits to also proc guilty soul because at the moment they do not. Due to the slower damage, harder hits, (relative to their dok counterparts) being parried is very punishing so allowing the crit hits that go through help maintain guilty soul could be good too. Otherwise, a slight bump to their % strikethrough could also be nice.

I don't think they really need a movement speed ability because that could be too strong given their ability to self sustain so readily with their lifetaps. While it's not perfect they do have their snare break and can flee + double AP pot if they really needed to. Additionally, the new change to their hammer has a small snare that can help.

During their experimental phase, Wrath had access to a choppa/slayer style 'charge' that basically just buffed their movespeed. I would like to see it returned, in no small measure because I HATE the meta of 'flee and blow an AP pot'.

Also even if Guilty Soul is procced more, WP still does incredibly bad DPS with no real burst.

[Foltestik]

DPS dont need buff he is going well even in city


was only quing as 6 man

[yoluigi]

DPS dont need buff he is going well even in city


was only quing as 6 man

The question you gotta ask is what gear he had (probably BIS) compare to the others. And also in a pug i can get to high numbers with my wp dps because my allies are in vanquisher gear, + am just spaming aoe attacks. if you see the other guys they might be all build for single target. No slayers no engineers . Everytime am in a real 24vs24 premade with people in full sov like my self against an other destro premade. am pretty much in the dps range with the SM which is a tank 2h. EVEN if i spam that aoe dmg meaning am not focusing guys. All the other dps class are higher dps(WL,BW,Engi,Slayer,SW) and i dont have burst of a WH which they normaly get the higher Kill blow. Action point recovery is very hard to keep on this class compare to others. When i use my tap heals it stop my action point recovery.

The thing with guilty soul is it does not do more dmg than it did when we had dominator/opp gear back a few years ago. Unless it would scale with your str. But it's not how the ability work. Trust me guilty soul was alot better when max gear was bloodlord. Soo it need some kind of buff proc with other grace abilities or change the time for 6 seconds, heal leach, procs on white dmg etc.

Somekind of rework of guilty soul would be ideal to make it work on endgame gear.