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WL The Lion - your Guardian

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sighy
Posts: 259

Re: WL The Lion - your Guardian

Post#41 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:30 pm

knick wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:32 pm simply
SH can eat his pet and summon instantly a new one dont have the draw back like the WL when his pet dies.

So while SH pet "die(got eaten)" SH receive wound buff and can instantly have a new one
WL pet dies - end of story

If WL would have same mechanic would be no problem to bound it to a stance. But its not so control about it is fair trade off
SH can't resummon the pet which synergises with their spec. So if you sac a horned squig you have choice between shooting on the move, extra range and 12,5% average mitigation, in exchange for parry strikethrough.

I'm not disagreeing that SH is overloaded and is gonna get nerfed, in the likely less than 5 years, but their defensive abilities do have their own drawbacks worth aknowledging. (There is also the clarity thing, where you can always tell which squig is out, at first glance, as compared to always same cat, for the lion)

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PlagueMonk
Posts: 117

Re: WL The Lion - your Guardian

Post#42 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:19 pm

knick wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:03 am Hey all
We have seen a few changes(nerfs) to the WL in the last patches. Therefore fights last longer than the WL is intended to stay. WL was designed to go fast in kill and go out. Specially is the WL missing any abilitys providing defensive attributes. I mean any other mDD have the possibility to spec or use by default a self-heal ability or other defensive styles.
Something the WL is missing in total.

Therefore I would suggest a ability called "Lionpackt". When active your Lion guarding you for 10 sec. While active 50% damage will be split between you and your Lion. 30 seconds cool down. Lion have to be in 45 feet to you. The ability stops when your Lion leaves 45 feet to you or die. This ability don't stack with other guard abilitys.

I think this is a fair tradeoff to the lost offensive strength. Gives the WL a fair defensive style like all other DD have and diversity to the class itself. Its not a 1 button trolololol ability. If the pet dies the WL loose utilities and damage. So it's a decision with deeper impact for the player. Its add a tactical element to the class
I would personally could go for this idea except for 2 things:

- This is primarily for single player and we all know the game isn't balanced around single player. It would however keep me from being wiped out by anything that gets the drop on me.
- The lion is not viable outside of single/small group play (again see point 1). In anything like sieges, forts and cities the lion dies at the drop of a hat, making it a liability. The lion itself needs to be buffed to make it much more survivable.
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knick
Posts: 206

Re: WL The Lion - your Guardian

Post#43 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:30 am

PlagueMonk wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:19 pm
Spoiler:
knick wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:03 am Hey all
We have seen a few changes(nerfs) to the WL in the last patches. Therefore fights last longer than the WL is intended to stay. WL was designed to go fast in kill and go out. Specially is the WL missing any abilitys providing defensive attributes. I mean any other mDD have the possibility to spec or use by default a self-heal ability or other defensive styles.
Something the WL is missing in total.

Therefore I would suggest a ability called "Lionpackt". When active your Lion guarding you for 10 sec. While active 50% damage will be split between you and your Lion. 30 seconds cool down. Lion have to be in 45 feet to you. The ability stops when your Lion leaves 45 feet to you or die. This ability don't stack with other guard abilitys.

I think this is a fair tradeoff to the lost offensive strength. Gives the WL a fair defensive style like all other DD have and diversity to the class itself. Its not a 1 button trolololol ability. If the pet dies the WL loose utilities and damage. So it's a decision with deeper impact for the player. Its add a tactical element to the class
I would personally could go for this idea except for 2 things:

- This is primarily for single player and we all know the game isn't balanced around single player. It would however keep me from being wiped out by anything that gets the drop on me.
- The lion is not viable outside of single/small group play (again see point 1). In anything like sieges, forts and cities the lion dies at the drop of a hat, making it a liability. The lion itself needs to be buffed to make it much more survivable.
hey PlagueMonk

Ty for your feedback
i think i have to make my suggestion a bit more clear specially the tactical use of it.
I know the game is about groups so the situations i had in mind was a 6vs6 or Warband vs Warband.
Situation 6vs6 you are guarded and your tank got kicked away from you. So you use "Lionpackt" till tank walks back to you.
In Warbands you Jump in the backline far away from your tanks. So you use "Lionpackt" to make Lion stuff and run fast out.

Any other mDD class have something to to survive such situations. Selfheal, Instant stealth, Knock out and so on except WL

I read often WL have problems with their cats. To be honest it depends on your actual stance. My cat have nearly 9k live -thats more than i have :D. So Yes a ability like this will hurt your cat. If you are in the wrong stance it will die. And while the ability is only usable while your cat is alive the usability is limited
[Kraehenfeld] Knick WL RR85+

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PlagueMonk
Posts: 117

Re: WL The Lion - your Guardian

Post#44 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:50 pm

knick wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:30 am
PlagueMonk wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:19 pm
Spoiler:
knick wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:03 am Hey all
We have seen a few changes(nerfs) to the WL in the last patches. Therefore fights last longer than the WL is intended to stay. WL was designed to go fast in kill and go out. Specially is the WL missing any abilitys providing defensive attributes. I mean any other mDD have the possibility to spec or use by default a self-heal ability or other defensive styles.
Something the WL is missing in total.

Therefore I would suggest a ability called "Lionpackt". When active your Lion guarding you for 10 sec. While active 50% damage will be split between you and your Lion. 30 seconds cool down. Lion have to be in 45 feet to you. The ability stops when your Lion leaves 45 feet to you or die. This ability don't stack with other guard abilitys.

I think this is a fair tradeoff to the lost offensive strength. Gives the WL a fair defensive style like all other DD have and diversity to the class itself. Its not a 1 button trolololol ability. If the pet dies the WL loose utilities and damage. So it's a decision with deeper impact for the player. Its add a tactical element to the class
I would personally could go for this idea except for 2 things:

- This is primarily for single player and we all know the game isn't balanced around single player. It would however keep me from being wiped out by anything that gets the drop on me.
- The lion is not viable outside of single/small group play (again see point 1). In anything like sieges, forts and cities the lion dies at the drop of a hat, making it a liability. The lion itself needs to be buffed to make it much more survivable.
hey PlagueMonk

Ty for your feedback
i think i have to make my suggestion a bit more clear specially the tactical use of it.
I know the game is about groups so the situations i had in mind was a 6vs6 or Warband vs Warband.
Situation 6vs6 you are guarded and your tank got kicked away from you. So you use "Lionpackt" till tank walks back to you.
In Warbands you Jump in the backline far away from your tanks. So you use "Lionpackt" to make Lion stuff and run fast out.

Any other mDD class have something to to survive such situations. Selfheal, Instant stealth, Knock out and so on except WL

I read often WL have problems with their cats. To be honest it depends on your actual stance. My cat have nearly 9k live -thats more than i have :D. So Yes a ability like this will hurt your cat. If you are in the wrong stance it will die. And while the ability is only usable while your cat is alive the usability is limited
As I said, I would love to have an ability like this. WE pops out from stealth with a KD and first thing I would do is hit this ability (of course this ability would need to be an exception to disallowing abilities while KD). I could actually survive her attack and have the time to fight back for a change.

if I were to entertain this idea however I would probably call it, "Defend Master", restrict the distance to 30', make the CD 1 min and limit the lion to only 1 attack type instead of 3.

There is still the issue of the lion surviving. It's defenses are so low that more HP are almost meaningless. The lion itself needs to be buffed as well so it can not only survive small scale melee encounters but also keeps, forts and even cities. I posted this example in another thread but it demonstrates just how fragile they are.......I was using trained to threaten and we were outside the lord room in a fort trying to get in. My lion had died previously but when I went to summon him again, he died instantly and I mean that literally. Summoned and dead again in less than 1 second. There is something VERY wrong if our class defining feature cannot survive end game material.


Also.......where would this ability go? Would you replace a basic ability we get while leveling up or would it go into a tree? If a basic ability, what would it replace? If a tree ability, which tree and where?
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