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Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

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Mruvka
Posts: 17

Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#1 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:40 pm

Hello all!

Here is an idea I had, I am curious to see what people would make of it:

In future Update announcements, I think it will be useful to give a very short (1-2 sentences) explanation to balance changes, similarly to what Blizzard do for StarCraft, Hearthstone and other games.

I am curious to see the developers' reasons for making the changes that they make. It might help the players understand better and, ultimately, accept the change. I think the community might actually be able to give some good and informed comments about a balance decision, if they knew all the facts that prompted the change.

Another idea is posing the problem and asking the community for proposed solutions before implementing a final decision. For example, make a thread on the forum called "AoE WL is too strong, please suggest ideas for a nerf" and list in there some options you are considering and the arguments behind them.

If somebody from the forum comes up with an alternative solution that will fix the problem, great. If not - players will be informed and prepared for a number of possible changes, even before (and if) they are implemented. It is easier to accept something for which you had several weeks of warning compared to something that comes completely out of the blue. Furthermore, players will also feel like they are involved in the balance process, which may not be always the case right now.

Finally it is a way of weeding out bad decisions before they become a reality (for example, the reversed Chosen changes from a couple of months ago).

That's it! Thank you for your attention!
Titillation - 82 RR WL
Shibboleth - 79 RR WP

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bossabe
Posts: 51

Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#2 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:45 pm

are you new to "RETURN OF RECKONING" ? :)

Teek
Posts: 24

Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#3 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:38 am

bossabe wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:45 pm
are you new to "RETURN OF RECKONING" ? :)
Do you just follow people around who are trying to provide constructive feedback criticizing them? At least hes trying to share his experiences, or do new players perspectives not count in this game. Appears to me that you see the game as having no room for new players which is just cancerous.

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Arcrival
Posts: 69

Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#4 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:47 pm

Be good if they started using the discussion section in feedback forum. Unless they don’t care to discuss it in that case nothing to change.
It's OK to heal a Slayer! :mrgreen:

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Zhentarim
Posts: 122

Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#5 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:36 pm

I agree that Devs should be more clear on why a change was made so we dont get several pages of people speculating why the change was made. Another thing I would like to see is that the devs that do the banning of people could be more clear why a specific person was banned.

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 7344
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Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#6 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:35 pm

Zhentarim wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:36 pm
I agree that Devs should be more clear on why a change was made so we dont get several pages of people speculating why the change was made. Another thing I would like to see is that the devs that do the banning of people could be more clear why a specific person was banned.
Players who get banned receive a PM for the reason why, and have a whole forum section to contest the ban if they feel it was unwarranted, which is exceedingly rare.

Trying to summarize days or weeks of conversation around a balance change and all the context involved down to a couple concise sentences generally doesn't result in understanding and acceptance, but rather seems to invite further dissent and arguments. We get that response anyway for changes precisely when we expect to get them without adding fuel to that fire. Good faith dissent and discussion is increasingly rare to find. Players have biases at varying levels of awareness, and more than a few make some wild arguments to protect their interests. This happens in the general discussion forums, it happened when we ran balance changes through a dedicated balance forum, and it happens internally as well when focus on a single class drags on too long. The Realm Champion program tapped on a handful of players who we're hoping will make evaluations on our balance interests with an above average level of intellectual honesty about the state of each change we present.

Or more simply, getting burned for posting long form explanations really hurts the chances of more long form explanations. No one on the team is discouraged from writing out all their deepest thoughts on a specific change, they simply don't because it doesn't strike them as providing significant value for their time invested.
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bossabe
Posts: 51

Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#7 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:38 pm

Teek wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:38 am
bossabe wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:45 pm
are you new to "RETURN OF RECKONING" ? :)
Do you just follow people around who are trying to provide constructive feedback criticizing them? At least hes trying to share his experiences, or do new players perspectives not count in this game. Appears to me that you see the game as having no room for new players which is just cancerous.
Loool , you build an entire scenario in your head , from a question i asked .
okay

Thaodan
Posts: 21

Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#8 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:58 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:35 pm
Zhentarim wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:36 pm
I agree that Devs should be more clear on why a change was made so we dont get several pages of people speculating why the change was made. Another thing I would like to see is that the devs that do the banning of people could be more clear why a specific person was banned.
Players who get banned receive a PM for the reason why, and have a whole forum section to contest the ban if they feel it was unwarranted, which is exceedingly rare.

Trying to summarize days or weeks of conversation around a balance change and all the context involved down to a couple concise sentences generally doesn't result in understanding and acceptance, but rather seems to invite further dissent and arguments. We get that response anyway for changes precisely when we expect to get them without adding fuel to that fire. Good faith dissent and discussion is increasingly rare to find. Players have biases at varying levels of awareness, and more than a few make some wild arguments to protect their interests. This happens in the general discussion forums, it happened when we ran balance changes through a dedicated balance forum, and it happens internally as well when focus on a single class drags on too long. The Realm Champion program tapped on a handful of players who we're hoping will make evaluations on our balance interests with an above average level of intellectual honesty about the state of each change we present.

Or more simply, getting burned for posting long form explanations really hurts the chances of more long form explanations. No one on the team is discouraged from writing out all their deepest thoughts on a specific change, they simply don't because it doesn't strike them as providing significant value for their time invested.
I understand your problem, however not communicating or better communicating by saying nothing does not make it better either.
I can understand that it feels **** that there are people how are like that, not only here but in every game.

In general it would be useful that changes are better documented. Like for example patches notes should go to the wiki and not to the forum. Finding the actual is much harder in the long if we have to search the forum for changelogs/patchnotes vs. using the wiki with references and connected articles going back and forth.

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 26

Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#9 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:23 am

Thaodan wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:58 am
In general it would be useful that changes are better documented. Like for example patches notes should go to the wiki and not to the forum. Finding the actual is much harder in the long if we have to search the forum for changelogs/patchnotes vs. using the wiki with references and connected articles going back and forth.
Good idea, be the change you want to see buddy, wiki is open to anybody with an account :)
SM - Arhalum - R7X
AM - Shaheena - R8X

Thaodan
Posts: 21

Re: Idea for Improving Communication of Balance Changes

Post#10 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:32 am

BluIzLucky wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:23 am
Thaodan wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:58 am
In general it would be useful that changes are better documented. Like for example patches notes should go to the wiki and not to the forum. Finding the actual is much harder in the long if we have to search the forum for changelogs/patchnotes vs. using the wiki with references and connected articles going back and forth.
Good idea, be the change you want to see buddy, wiki is open to anybody with an account :)
Doing that for my class I play (KotbS) but this is about changelogs that are not posted by me.

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