Squig Herder is a bit overtuned.

[brocel]

As a SH, I wouldn't mind giving up the RKD for more range on Quickshootin abilities and slightly less damage

[Ysaran]

Ok, so. I read your post and... I'm not convinced. I don't have an opinion about SH, neither melee or ranged, but what you wrote seem a bit biased (knowing your story here on the forum) and I don't know what to believe.
The SS prove nothing I fear. If you want to prove a any point, you have to use dummy/training construct, hard formula and video where you hit a test player of known equipment/spec.
Also, Devs don't care about this kind of comparison (Rampeg-nerf post docet). They care about inter-realm balance, i.e. how a class perform compared with other classe of the same realm having the same role. You shoud try to prove that rSH outperform Sorc/Magu or that mSH outperform Choppa/Mara/WE.

You should read it again, because the screenshot is only a part of concern #3. It goes to show that the squig pet does good enough damage that it should not provide a better passive than a dedicated stance.

I don't feel like explaining that a fourth or fifth time.

Don't worry about my reading comprehension, I got what you meant the first time I read it. Still, that SS prove nothing. There are a lot of cheesy way to pump up pet's numbers. Actually to pump up any number. I already wrote what kind of proof is considered "worthy", by both experienced player and Devs. I don't care abouth this thread, Nerf the SH or buff it, I'm not concerned. Mine was more like a general advice. That said, I'm out. You are way too aggressive to have any discussion.

[Neverever]

Literally no one can deal with SH nowadays dude

Yet again the same whiners supporting each other in every thread...

Yet again same destro fanboys supporting everything that destro has disregarding faction balance. see?

But make no mistake, we are not like each other at all, because when order had 90% winrate in forts, I supported changes, because continual winrate of one side of this magnitude couldn't have possibly been player issue.

While all your posts are basically telling people they need l2p, not giving any good arguments or data at all.

Oh what a good good good boy ... Dude I was one of a few who kept telling RSH didn't need big changes but a few QOL changes instead. None of the devoted SH players asked for these changes. I have also contradicted the requests for having the 100ft tactic restored with keeping the recent changes because it would be simply OP. All RSH needed was a slight dmg increase on some of its abilities and more stability on pet which plays a big part on RSH play. I still do not know whose ideas were put into work in this case. But, being limited to 65ft (I find using Gas squig for 15 more ft. pointless for various reasons) as a ranged class it is more than fair. When it comes to MSH it has been already nerfed. I think when it comes to balance 6vs6 is the best place to check the state of classes individually. And I think any Destro 6v6 player would confirm that they are not usually happy to see a RSH or MSH as dps when the game starts since other melee dps classes simply overperform SH both MSH and RSH in terms of dmg and survivability. And finally when it comes to city fights maras and choppas usually double MSH in term of both dmg and kills. And well what role RSH plays in city fights? none. SO can't understand all that whining.

[farng84]

ill be honest, im with the people on page1. i read you initial post and the first few points seemed like your main case, then a screenshot that at first didnt see overwhelming was addeed as "mic drop" but i never saw any text saying "this is pet damage only"

and then you lost me.
SH as a class has alot, probably too many, things going for them atm though...

It's not a mic drop. The screenshot was referenced to in point 3. The pet is good enough on its own that there's no justification for granting it a passive buff that is simply better than the Scout Stance's buff.

I spelled this out very clearly.

Lol mate it's not negative criticism, both he and I are trying to say that we read (although you assumed I didnt) your post, but after seeing the screen, it seems like your focus is actually more about the pet damage than about its utility.
That is why I said your first point would have been better presented if you just said pet does A and B plus contribute to X% to your dmg, which is unbalanced because...

But like I stated before, just a personal opinion, if you think the post it's clear, it's good

[Gurf]

Just to be clear at the moment the SH has for utility:
Silence
Pounce
Disarm
Kaboom aoe knockback
Indigestion Aoe cooldown increaser
Run away speed buff ability
Run away speed buff tactic
Ranged knockback morale
Squig goo aoe slow morale
Squig Armour to convert instantly to melee
Knockdown from pet in melee
Ranged interrupt
Heal debuff with no cooldown
Ranged snare x2

Probably others I have missed please add as needed, and people wonder why we think it is a bad move to also give them a ranged knockdown on top of all that

[Sundowner]

Yet again the same whiners supporting each other in every thread...

Yet again same destro fanboys supporting everything that destro has disregarding faction balance. see?

But make no mistake, we are not like each other at all, because when order had 90% winrate in forts, I supported changes, because continual winrate of one side of this magnitude couldn't have possibly been player issue.

While all your posts are basically telling people they need l2p, not giving any good arguments or data at all.

Oh what a good good good boy ... Dude I was one of a few who kept telling RSH didn't need big changes but a few QOL changes instead. None of the devoted SH players asked for these changes. I have also contradicted the requests for having the 100ft tactic restored with keeping the recent changes because it would be simply OP. All RSH needed was a slight dmg increase on some of its abilities and more stability on pet which plays a big part on RSH play. I still do not know whose ideas were put into work in this case. But, being limited to 65ft (I find using Gas squig for 15 more ft. pointless for various reasons) as a ranged class it is more than fair. When it comes to MSH it has been already nerfed. I think when it comes to balance 6vs6 is the best place to check the state of classes individually. And I think any Destro 6v6 player would confirm that they are not usually happy to see a RSH or MSH as dps when the game starts since other melee dps classes simply overperform SH both MSH and RSH in terms of dmg and survivability. And finally when it comes to city fights maras and choppas usually double MSH in term of both dmg and kills. And well what role RSH plays in city fights? none. SO can't understand all that whining.

see? even you can give a bit comperhensive answers. only good boi here is you

Also, you clearly don't seem do understand that rSH is ST and mSH is AOE, devs several time stated that. MSH was nerfed in terms of ST burst tactic, because having both AOE and ST in one tree with good utility is kinda broken? no?

also, other dps overperform MSH in survivability? are u sure choppa is more survivable than mSH?

In city mSH can do decent damage, but main thing he brings is utility, than would make him very good choice, if Mara and choppa did not have already better dmg and utility. The same goes for order when Slayer has all dmg and utility, but devs somehow think that it is normal. But is mSH bad for cities? no. Do people take them into cities? yes.

argument OP is making is that SH is overperforming with its utility, mobility and survivability and it clearly is, but you keep talking about rSH in cities when you literally have good AOE spec for city

[agemennon675]

Just to be clear at the moment the SH has for utility:
Silence
Pounce
Disarm
Kaboom aoe knockback
Indigestion Aoe cooldown increaser
Run away speed buff ability
Run away speed buff tactic
Ranged knockback morale
Squig goo aoe slow morale
Squig Armour to convert instantly to melee
Knockdown from pet in melee
Ranged interrupt
Heal debuff with no cooldown
Ranged snare x2

Probably others I have missed please add as needed, and people wonder why we think it is a bad move to also give them a ranged knockdown on top of all that

You forgot the add self healing from Tastes like stuntie, outta my way(non-immunity aoe knockback can be use to interrupt with %75 speed increase), absorb cleave, and init debuff, though you cannot have all these in one spec

[Nekkma]

They should never have been given ranged kd to begin with. Ranged kd always was a bullshit skill but it was tolerable given it was on a subpar class in SW (not counting morale abilities here).

Rsh seem fine in groupfight but less so smaller engagements. I think balance is off when a sh do more burst during their kd than a assassin type class like WE (this is my experience playing an AM in vanq). From range and unkitable no less. WE, WH and WL seem very lackluster in comparison.

SO it was tolerable when only 2 order classes had it and not when given one to the destro side with 65ft ? Not happy to deal a bullshit which has always been there for Destro then ? Epitome of bias? Exaggerations don't make thing more real just to make you know.

I am a destro main since 2008 so you can drop the order bias. Destro should never have gotten rkd or pounce and most certainly should not have run away nerfed.

Edit: RSH will for sure be toned down just as the guardian WL ended up beeing despite a significant part of WL players claiming everything was fine with it.

[MMXX43]

The amount of destro forum meme warriors is staggering ( a solid band of the usual names )
can really showdown why they wont admit a fact that even the devs acknowledged, it hurts the opness and ezness they get.

[MMXX43]

Sh got rkd mirrored from SW ...what did Order get ( ever) as a one way or trade mirror.
I ll w8.