Squig Herder is a bit overtuned.

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teiloh
Posts: 628

Squig Herder is a bit overtuned.

Post#1 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:31 pm

I said it several times before the rework, but RSH was never really that weak, it merely lacked AOE options. Single target naturally suffers when an AOE attack can do tens of thousands of cumulative damage.

I played a R70 SH and have a noobie one here. The class simply has too much CC, too much burst, too much survivability, too much mobility, too much utility and too many escape tools along with a pet.

Just for fun, try to count the sheer amount of CC tools the Squig Herder has compared to Rank 40 SW and WL at the same time.

1) This class should probably not have an RKD. Destro RDPS has a ton of synergy/complementary abilities already. It has far, far too much mobility and survivability for a class to have a RKD, while Order has fewer knockdowns and no AOE KD. BW has to spec high in a single target line and sacrifice Ignite + GCDs, and they and SW are at infinitely more risk anywhere on the battlefield because of Destro's profound abundance of snares, pulls, speed boosts and other gap closers. A Squig Herder can simply run anywhere on the map with almost no risk and reap huge rewards by piling on CC.

2) Squig Armor is almost an entire MDPS class, core, at the press of one button. This would be like giving WL a Ranged Lion mode that makes them into an Archer with full RDPS capability and 8-9+ abilities, core, that are in many ways better than what any RDPS can spec for. This tree should probably be thinned out, but adapted to suit a hybrid archer/melee.

3) Many of the Squig Herder pet buffs are significantly stronger than either the WL pet buffs or the SW stance buffs. Scout stance for example gives a little bit of Ballistics, and raises bow Ranges by 10%. The Gas Squig gives +15 (something I'd suggested for Scout SW before), which is flat-out better, especially for mid-range attacks. That's not even counting the fact that the pet itself is a huge boon to DPS, adding roughly 15-25% of damage depending on tactics/situation.

Other things to note - the rework has more or less made all of their lines/abilities/tactics strong when many classes (esp. WL) are saddled with really bad/worthless choices. Hopefully this will be fixed by improving useless tactics/abilities (like Stalker and so many others on WL), but the Squig Herder's current status really exacerbates things.
Last edited by teiloh on Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Neverever
Posts: 149

Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#2 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:57 pm

teiloh wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:31 pm
I said it several times before the rework, but RSH was never weak, it merely lacked AOE options. Single target naturally suffers when an AOE attack can do tens of thousands of cumulative damage. I played a R70 SH and have a noobie one here. They're broken.

The class simply has too much CC, too much burst, too much survivability, too much mobility, too much utility and too many escape tools along with a pet.

Just for fun, try to count the sheer amount of CC tools the Squig Herder has compared to Rank 40 SW and WL at the same time.

1) This class should not have an RKD. Destro RDPS has a ton of synergy/complementary abilities already. It has far, far too much mobility and survivability for a class to have a RKD, while Order has fewer knockdowns and no AOE KD. BW has to spec high in a single target line and sacrifice Ignite + GCDs, and they and SW are at infinitely more risk anywhere on the battlefield because of Destro's profound abundance of snares, pulls, speed boosts and other gap closers. A Squig Herder can simply run anywhere on the map with almost no risk and reap huge rewards by piling on CC.

2) Squig Armor is almost an entire MDPS class, core, at the press of one button. This would be like giving WL a Ranged Lion mode that makes them into an Archer with full RDPS capability and 8-9+ abilities, core, that are in many ways better than what any RDPS can spec for. This tree should probably be thinned out, but adapted to suit a hybrid archer/melee.

3) Many of the Squig Herder pet buffs are significantly stronger than either the WL pet buffs or the SW stance buffs. Scout stance for example gives a little bit of Ballistics, and raises bow Ranges by 10%. The Gas Squig gives +15 (something I'd suggested for Scout SW before), which is flat-out better, especially for mid-range attacks. That's not even counting the fact that the pet itself is a huge boon to DPS. See below for a screenshot of me playing in a scen and doing *absolutely nothing* but detaunting and sending my pet on people.

Other things to note - the rework has more or less made all of their lines/abilities/tactics strong when many classes (esp. WL) are saddled with really bad/worthless choices. Hopefully this will be fixed by improving useless tactics/abilities (like Stalker and so many others on WL), but the Squig Herder's current broken status really exacerbates things.

Sorry if it's not what you want to hear, but this class is taking a dump on many aspects of the game atm.


Image
Have you shared the SS to refute the points of your own whining ?
SH is fine, sorry that makes you sad but that doesn't have anything to do with game balance. L2p

User avatar
teiloh
Posts: 628

Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#3 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:04 pm

Did you read? That's the damage of the pet alone - I did nothing but detaunt and command the pet.

Neverever
Posts: 149

Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#4 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:17 pm

teiloh wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:04 pm
Did you read? That's the damage of the pet alone - I did nothing but detaunt and command the pet.
And how do you explain dying 2 times while just sending your pet and detaunting ? it is obvious SHs make you unhappy but the way to deal with it is not making childish posts on forum but learning how to deal with them. I have doubts but lets say what you put in front of us have a slight truth in it, then killing or detaunting the pet would basically solve your problem. Your welcome

ChicagoJoe
Posts: 176

Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#5 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:20 pm

teiloh wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:04 pm
Did you read? That's the damage of the pet alone - I did nothing but detaunt and command the pet.
Oh damn that's nuts. Me got to get me sum SH.

lyncher12
Posts: 476

Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#6 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:21 pm

so you compete with tanks for damage and its broken?

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teiloh
Posts: 628

Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#7 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:22 pm

Neverever wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:17 pm
teiloh wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:04 pm
Did you read? That's the damage of the pet alone - I did nothing but detaunt and command the pet.
And how do you explain dying 2 times while just sending your pet and detaunting ? it is obvious SHs make you unhappy but the way to deal with it is not making childish posts on forum but learning how to deal with them. I have doubts but lets say what you put in front of us have a slight truth in it, then killing or detaunting the pet would basically solve your problem. Your welcome
I died twice because I ran into the middle of Order just to be funny a few times. Well, to AOE snare them off the healers but still. My Squig Herder did no damage, the Squig pet did all the damage.

The damage of the pet was to make the point that it has no business granting passives that are more powerful than Scout stance abilities. This you would have understood if you actually read the text instead of rushing to defend an overpowered class that a number of devs themselves have said they are concerned about.
Last edited by teiloh on Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
teiloh
Posts: 628

Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#8 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:22 pm

lyncher12 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:21 pm
so you compete with tanks for damage and its broken?
Do you read text?

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Spellbound
Posts: 139
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Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#9 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:38 pm

Im amazed how those that responded didn't understand the purpose of the post and just knee jerk reaction in defense. I'll make it easy to read but I know blinders will be on:

POINT: Pet alone did xxx,xxx amount of damage without the SH himself using any offense ability. The deaths are not a factor, just the damage to show the DPS output he's trying to show you. If he wanted to attack along with the pet and not doing this test, numbers would be topping charts easy.
Image

lyncher12
Posts: 476

Re: I'm going to be blunt - Squig Herder is absolutely broken.

Post#10 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:47 pm

teiloh wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:22 pm
lyncher12 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:21 pm
so you compete with tanks for damage and its broken?
Do you read text?
I'll be honest I didn't read most of it because of my low skill order roleplayer whine heuristic, however I did see the part where you mentioned it being pet only damage. With just the pet you compete with tanks. Lets say you actually played and were top damage, which means not even half of your total player damage is from the pet. Remind me again the problem here?

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