Unchain the Terrain - Making Greystone Tower TC open again

[Martok]

Several viewers don't understand what is the fun to sit in ambush for 10 minutes and wait for someone to come by. I also can't explain it.

It is the satisfaction of successfully manipulating events in order to create the fight you want at the location you choose. And then winning that fight. That such activity requires patience and dedication to the task is why so few indulge in the mechanic.

Your towers are not the only locations around the Warhammer World to have been altered with the intent to inhibit solo play. One example is the overlook in KV, which now has more little mobs closer to the edge than were once there. That and the in-zone portals being blocked off combined with terrain alterations in numerous locations.

I understand though that it is the counterapproach to kiting 6men action or Warband play.

Six-man and warband play is characterized by little more than the brute-force approach. Anyone can do that.

[Karast]

I don't post on the forums anymore but I felt it important to chime in here now.

This is not the first time they have hard come hard at snipe spots. They have been blocking off fun places for a while now and that is the point. For most of the community the tower spots are fun. They are surprising. They give people a way to enjoy the game in a different way and offer no real advantage to one side or the other. Magus or Engi, SH or SW we can all use them. You can sneak a few ranged up there to support a small melee train from the zerg. When on your WH or We you can jump across to wreck havoc on the squishy ranged dps on top.

If jumping across to these towers or in some cases walking up a ramp is an exploit then so is jumping over a fence in caledor when kiting, or hiding behind a rock since it takes no more effort or key presses to accomplish.

Engis / Magus were built for snipe and using these fun spots by the dev team. It was the ROR team that gave the increased range, that striped most of the aoe potential, and pushed engi and magus into being snipe bots, while buffing every melee dps to the teeth. When we complained, when we made suggestions, when we asked for changes we were told to play to our advantage. To use terrain, to use keeps, to hold stacks. That is what people are doing playing to the one advantage of the class and now they are being punished for it because a player died in RvR and got angry.

Having more spots to play from brings more diversity of play and opens up a lot of fun options overall you are just encouraging engi's and magus to join the zerg or sit in keeps. You are removing these small scale fights and making the game less fun overall.

[Nekkma]

I don't post on the forums anymore but I felt it important to chime in here now.

This is not the first time they have hard come hard at snipe spots. They have been blocking off fun places for a while now and that is the point. For most of the community the tower spots are fun.

I disagree and actually think that most find the kind of gameplay described here the very poster boy for lame gameplay. Now, I don’t really care if you do it (however, I still don’t think ganking soloers with 6-12 people are worthy of any praise) but the game and server is hardly for the worse to wall these locations off. It hurts your specific niche but is that niche really a net positive for the server? I doubt it.

[Sundowner]

I mean that is not something that will change course of siege or something like that. Just wipe 1 group, they understand what's happening and come back prepared. it is fun.

If someone gets angry that his group died from better prepared enemy, he should reconsider his approach to the game

also things like that and role-playing enriches gameplay and is good for the server.

Also for people salty from dying to dwarf sniper squads, git gud

[sonorous]

I don't post on the forums anymore but I felt it important to chime in here now.

This is not the first time they have hard come hard at snipe spots. They have been blocking off fun places for a while now and that is the point. For most of the community the tower spots are fun.

I disagree and actually think that most find the kind of gameplay described here the very poster boy for lame gameplay. Now, I don’t really care if you do it (however, I still don’t think ganking soloers with 6-12 people are worthy of any praise) but the game and server is hardly for the worse to wall these locations off. It hurts your specific niche but is that niche really a net positive for the server? I doubt it.

Lame gameplay for some is not a valid reason to wall off terrain. Some would argue that blobbing in a zerg is even more lame but we dont suggest a kill buff applied to players if they are in a zerg for more than 5 seconds.

Or are we...

The server is for the worse if terrain is no longer traversable. The only real argument which has been disproven in the initial post is that it gives an unfair advantage. There are many counters to it. It just cant be countered by someone with no map awarness.

If you want completely identical and fair engages where terrain does not give one side and advantage i would say to those detractors download League of Legends or any MOBA that floats your boat.

[Skullgrin]

If you're gonna petition for this, then you'd better also petition for all the terrain blocks that help ranged players that have been added over the past few years to be removed also. And there are a lot more of them than areas where ranged are banned from...

[Nekkma]

I don't post on the forums anymore but I felt it important to chime in here now.

This is not the first time they have hard come hard at snipe spots. They have been blocking off fun places for a while now and that is the point. For most of the community the tower spots are fun.

I disagree and actually think that most find the kind of gameplay described here the very poster boy for lame gameplay. Now, I don’t really care if you do it (however, I still don’t think ganking soloers with 6-12 people are worthy of any praise) but the game and server is hardly for the worse to wall these locations off. It hurts your specific niche but is that niche really a net positive for the server? I doubt it.

Lame gameplay for some is not a valid reason to wall off terrain. Some would argue that blobbing in a zerg is even more lame but we dont suggest a kill buff applied to players if they are in a zerg for more than 5 seconds.

Or are we...

The server is for the worse if terrain is no longer traversable. The only real argument which has been disproven in the initial post is that it gives an unfair advantage. There are many counters to it. It just cant be countered by someone with no map awarness.

If you want completely identical and fair engages where terrain does not give one side and advantage i would say to those detractors download League of Legends or any MOBA that floats your boat.

I’m not saying it should be changed or that it is any lamer than WBs zerging down soloers. I disagreed with the idea that the majority find groups, or solo, of rdps turreting in a spot you cannot get to in the normal way during a fight ”fun”. I’m of the opinion that most people find it terrible gameplay and game design. Thus, even tho BT seems like a fun guild doing great things for the community, my opinion is that restricting this and similar locations is a positive change for most of the players.

[Haskr]

If you're gonna petition for this, then you'd better also petition for all the terrain blocks that help ranged players that have been added over the past few years to be removed also. And there are a lot more of them than areas where ranged are banned from...

what are those blocks

[Skullgrin]

The most obvious one that comes to mind is the little section of wooden fencing on the hill in front of Doomstriker Vein in Thunder Mountain. You used to be able to ride up the hill at that point instead of riding around to either side in order to get to DV. There a tons of areas that those little fences have been used to stop players from riding or walking into places that the devs have decided need to be blocked off (rightly or wrongly), and most of them benefit ranged classes.

There are also areas that have been blocked off with invisible walls that used to be able to be used as choke points/ambush staging areas by both ranged and melee classes, I could probably go thru every zone and give examples if I find the time, a bunch of them were places I used to use as ambush points while hunting solo...

[Kragg]

The most obvious one that comes to mind is the little section of wooden fencing on the hill in front of Doomstriker Vein in Thunder Mountain. You used to be able to ride up the hill at that point instead of riding around to either side in order to get to DV. There a tons of areas that those little fences have been used to stop players from riding or walking into places that the devs have decided need to be blocked off (rightly or wrongly), and most of them benefit ranged classes.

There are also areas that have been blocked off with invisible walls that used to be able to be used as choke points/ambush staging areas by both ranged and melee classes, I could probably go thru every zone and give examples if I find the time, a bunch of them were places I used to use as ambush points while hunting solo...

You are correct, there are dozens of such spots. However, this thread is hopefully a buildup for a dialogue with the dev team that these spots add flavour the war.