Pounce/Leap feedback

[Lithenir]

Spoiler:

I play Warhammer Online for like 10 years now, had a RR100 WL on live and a RR82 WL on RoR and it's the first time since 8 years I am playing without pounce.

The WL was originally made to be a hunter, which was the right thing to do according to lore. Made to hunt down healers (that's why they the outgoing HD) and range-dps. Sadly constant forum drama from range-dps finally seemed to work and they got rid of the only threat they had to fear.
This being said I also don't think WL was ever made to play big roles in more than WB vs WB environment. One problem is that AoE dmg seems to be stronger on this server than it was on live.

But even if I am kind of disappointed about these changes (probably mostly because I run my builds since 10 years), I am also eager to find out what kind of fun builds I can run now.
One thing is for sure, they should rename "Path of the Guardian" into "Path of the Hunter" since the tree has now everything you need to do your initial job, which is hunting.

I think handling of problem with rdps was very wrong, because they do not suffer from army of evil WL/SHs who pounce and delete them, rdps suffer because city terrain favours melee balls. Every WL who played in orginized city is that you jump only in niche situations, u do not want to initiate fight with pounce if you do not want to deleted and then yelled by wb leader for being dumb.

Sadly, new paths changed do not offer much. aoe and smallscale builds are the same, in rank you either take HD or pounce, and with pounce nerfed this much I run without it, basically mara with less crit, worse HD, no wound debuff, less survivable.

Tbh city and ranked are the last things I care about. City is the most boring thing in this game and I make far more Royals - in the time a siege lasts - with the contribution I get in the lakes than a city siege.

So I focus on RvR and SC and there WL were the only real threat to range-dps.

Still I am eager to find out if a Axeman/Guardian-Spec now can work in smallscale/solo play. Haven't run a build like that since I tried it out with rr100 on live

[desizt]

Pretty sure that these changes are directed towards ranked season 2 and general performance of WL in AoE fight contexts such as city sieges where the infinite pounce with enormous AoE potential was simply put...HARDCORE, especially compared to Destro side where none of the specs can do **** like that (mSH is not comparable)

In 6v6 ranked, WL and SW were dominating, simply due to the gap closer and highest burst in game, which again, was impossible to match on Destro.

Try to think broader than "omg they nerfed my main"...

[Sundowner]

Pretty sure that these changes are directed towards ranked season 2 and general performance of WL in AoE fight contexts such as city sieges where the infinite pounce with enormous AoE potential was simply put...HARDCORE, especially compared to Destro side where none of the specs can do **** like that (mSH is not comparable)

In 6v6 ranked, WL and SW were dominating, simply due to the gap closer and highest burst in game, which again, was impossible to match on Destro.

Try to think broader than "omg they nerfed my main"...

Infinite pounce in city? There was only several weeks many months ago when people found about WL meta in cities, but was countered very easily thereafter. If they are so strong and have enermous AOE potential, why is everyone stacking slayers? maybe because WL aoe dmg is not that high? stop painting aoe WL as something op while it clearly is not. also, mSH has cd increaser+pounce, mara has aoe kd and much better survivability in aoe spec. see? stop leaving out destro strong sides when arguing about balance.

Also no WL uses infinite pounce clown fest in city. Most of the time time you just follow group/wb leader applying aoe pressure as part of the melee ball, not pouncing ninja destroyer 9000.

In ranked, and oRVR in general, WL and SW high mobility is to counter mobility of rSH and shammie, which are almost impossible to catch without pounce. also high mobility is easily countered by stacking up together or taking pressure to healers, so, git gud I guess.

Also look how mara's perform in ranked and think again about term "dominating".

Try to think broader than "we can't give classes mobility that their effectivness depends on because I lose to them"

[CeeJay89]

literally ALL of the CC

You seem to have misread WL as SH. I think you're talking about SH.

Personally, I think WL is in a good place.

Of course you do. Because you literally have no knowledge of the class outside getting killed by them and you're happy they can't do it anymore.

[Stinkyweed]

Sure, and also return rSH SWW to original distance so QS line is 98ft. I am sick of dying due to having to get so damn close to order ruffians. Soloing with QS distance at 65/75 results in me getting caught...and I hate getting caught.

[desizt]

Pretty sure that these changes are directed towards ranked season 2 and general performance of WL in AoE fight contexts such as city sieges where the infinite pounce with enormous AoE potential was simply put...HARDCORE, especially compared to Destro side where none of the specs can do **** like that (mSH is not comparable)

In 6v6 ranked, WL and SW were dominating, simply due to the gap closer and highest burst in game, which again, was impossible to match on Destro.

Try to think broader than "omg they nerfed my main"...

Infinite pounce in city? There was only several weeks many months ago when people found about WL meta in cities, but was countered very easily thereafter. If they are so strong and have enermous AOE potential, why is everyone stacking slayers? maybe because WL aoe dmg is not that high? stop painting aoe WL as something op while it clearly is not. also, mSH has cd increaser+pounce, mara has aoe kd and much better survivability in aoe spec. see? stop leaving out destro strong sides when arguing about balance.

Also no WL uses infinite pounce clown fest in city. Most of the time time you just follow group/wb leader applying aoe pressure as part of the melee ball, not pouncing ninja destroyer 9000.

In ranked, and oRVR in general, WL and SW high mobility is to counter mobility of rSH and shammie, which are almost impossible to catch without pounce. also high mobility is easily countered by stacking up together or taking pressure to healers, so, git gud I guess.

Also look how mara's perform in ranked and think again about term "dominating".

Try to think broader than "we can't give classes mobility that their effectivness depends on because I lose to them"

"Git gud" - says a WL main.

I don't care about rvr (its boring, braindead zergfest that stopped being competitive years ago and thus can't really be taken as a balancing factor), but you have obviously never played ranked if you don't know why WL+aSW duo is the strongest possible double dps pick for 6v6.

You also don't play with or against decent city WBs that run ST group separate from AoE group.

I don't know who you are, but I'd suggest get some game experience before whining about changes that actually make sense.

[Sundowner]

Pretty sure that these changes are directed towards ranked season 2 and general performance of WL in AoE fight contexts such as city sieges where the infinite pounce with enormous AoE potential was simply put...HARDCORE, especially compared to Destro side where none of the specs can do **** like that (mSH is not comparable)

In 6v6 ranked, WL and SW were dominating, simply due to the gap closer and highest burst in game, which again, was impossible to match on Destro.

Try to think broader than "omg they nerfed my main"...

Infinite pounce in city? There was only several weeks many months ago when people found about WL meta in cities, but was countered very easily thereafter. If they are so strong and have enermous AOE potential, why is everyone stacking slayers? maybe because WL aoe dmg is not that high? stop painting aoe WL as something op while it clearly is not. also, mSH has cd increaser+pounce, mara has aoe kd and much better survivability in aoe spec. see? stop leaving out destro strong sides when arguing about balance.

Also no WL uses infinite pounce clown fest in city. Most of the time time you just follow group/wb leader applying aoe pressure as part of the melee ball, not pouncing ninja destroyer 9000.

In ranked, and oRVR in general, WL and SW high mobility is to counter mobility of rSH and shammie, which are almost impossible to catch without pounce. also high mobility is easily countered by stacking up together or taking pressure to healers, so, git gud I guess.

Also look how mara's perform in ranked and think again about term "dominating".

Try to think broader than "we can't give classes mobility that their effectivness depends on because I lose to them"

"Git gud" - says a WL main.

I don't care about rvr (its boring, braindead zergfest that stopped being competitive years ago and thus can't really be taken as a balancing factor), but you have obviously never played ranked if you don't know why WL+aSW duo is the strongest possible double dps pick for 6v6.

You also don't play with or against decent city WBs that run ST group separate from AoE group.

I don't know who you are, but I'd suggest get some game experience before whining about changes that actually make sense.

WL main says "Git gud" because you clearly should not be dominated by WLs and SWs in ranked as you are describing, nothing personal.

Yes I have played ranked as WL+aSW, even yesterday, which did not feel like "dominating" at all. Played as 2 WL several matches, won against several enemies (mainly badly equipped/specced) and lost against good WE+mara.

Yes, I have played in cities with separate AOE and ST groups in both in AOE and ST and played against most of top destro wbs. Never I have seen what you are describing as pouncing WLs with ENERMOUS aoe damage. Only thing I think was overtuned for city WL was pounce+finisher, which allowed for fast switching to targets, this was removed from mastery tree change and I was pro this choice. see? I don't whine for my class to be stronger, I did not whine when pounce damage was removed, because it gave big bonus to burst damage (also pet stat addition did not greatly compensated for that), I did not whine when pet skill stat modifiers were changed making pet damage useless outside trained to kill.

I made this post because reducing WL/mSH mobility to other mdps kills whole idea of class.

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Infinite pounce in city? There was only several weeks many months ago when people found about WL meta in cities, but was countered very easily thereafter. If they are so strong and have enermous AOE potential, why is everyone stacking slayers? maybe because WL aoe dmg is not that high? stop painting aoe WL as something op while it clearly is not. also, mSH has cd increaser+pounce, mara has aoe kd and much better survivability in aoe spec. see? stop leaving out destro strong sides when arguing about balance.

Also no WL uses infinite pounce clown fest in city. Most of the time time you just follow group/wb leader applying aoe pressure as part of the melee ball, not pouncing ninja destroyer 9000.

In ranked, and oRVR in general, WL and SW high mobility is to counter mobility of rSH and shammie, which are almost impossible to catch without pounce. also high mobility is easily countered by stacking up together or taking pressure to healers, so, git gud I guess.

Also look how mara's perform in ranked and think again about term "dominating".

Try to think broader than "we can't give classes mobility that their effectivness depends on because I lose to them"

"Git gud" - says a WL main.

I don't care about rvr (its boring, braindead zergfest that stopped being competitive years ago and thus can't really be taken as a balancing factor), but you have obviously never played ranked if you don't know why WL+aSW duo is the strongest possible double dps pick for 6v6.

You also don't play with or against decent city WBs that run ST group separate from AoE group.

I don't know who you are, but I'd suggest get some game experience before whining about changes that actually make sense.

WL main says "Git gud" because you clearly should not be dominated by WLs and SWs in ranked as you are describing, nothing personal.

Yes I have played ranked as WL+aSW, even yesterday, which did not feel like "dominating" at all. Played as 2 WL several matches, won against several enemies (mainly badly equipped/specced) and lost against good WE+mara.

Yes, I have played in cities with separate AOE and ST groups in both in AOE and ST and played against most of top destro wbs. Never I have seen what you are describing as pouncing WLs with ENERMOUS aoe damage. Only thing I think was overtuned for city WL was pounce+finisher, which allowed for fast switching to targets, this was removed from mastery tree change and I was pro this choice. see? I don't whine for my class to be stronger, I did not whine when pounce damage was removed, because it gave big bonus to burst damage (also pet stat addition did not greatly compensated for that), I did not whine when pet skill stat modifiers were changed making pet damage useless outside trained to kill.

I made this post because reducing WL/mSH mobility to other mdps kills whole idea of class.

Maybe you didnt know about this thread because happened just when you joined ROR, but well...there was life before any of us joined the server:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=36612&hilit=whirling+axe&start=30

Things have changed since then, but still WL is a solid mdps, lets not pretend that WLs are useless mdps hitting like wet noodles...check some vids of solid guilds => on Xergon channel (youtube ) you can find some vids of TUP

[VindicoAtrum]

You nearly got me with "sorc/bw no kiting classes"

These garbage responses should just be deleted. First response attempting to derail a lengthy feedback post instantly

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the pounce changes were awful and I've shelved my aSW. 45ft + the animation lock meaning your target is out of melee range on landing = useless ability, and they hacked 10% off the defenses because aSW were totally overpowered

Have seen WL discussions on whether to even take pounce now, if it wasn't for the fact it got damage back to dismount I expect it wouldn't even be a discussion, just a flat ignore.

[Sundowner]

Spoiler:

"Git gud" - says a WL main.

I don't care about rvr (its boring, braindead zergfest that stopped being competitive years ago and thus can't really be taken as a balancing factor), but you have obviously never played ranked if you don't know why WL+aSW duo is the strongest possible double dps pick for 6v6.

You also don't play with or against decent city WBs that run ST group separate from AoE group.

I don't know who you are, but I'd suggest get some game experience before whining about changes that actually make sense.

WL main says "Git gud" because you clearly should not be dominated by WLs and SWs in ranked as you are describing, nothing personal.

Yes I have played ranked as WL+aSW, even yesterday, which did not feel like "dominating" at all. Played as 2 WL several matches, won against several enemies (mainly badly equipped/specced) and lost against good WE+mara.

Yes, I have played in cities with separate AOE and ST groups in both in AOE and ST and played against most of top destro wbs. Never I have seen what you are describing as pouncing WLs with ENERMOUS aoe damage. Only thing I think was overtuned for city WL was pounce+finisher, which allowed for fast switching to targets, this was removed from mastery tree change and I was pro this choice. see? I don't whine for my class to be stronger, I did not whine when pounce damage was removed, because it gave big bonus to burst damage (also pet stat addition did not greatly compensated for that), I did not whine when pet skill stat modifiers were changed making pet damage useless outside trained to kill.

I made this post because reducing WL/mSH mobility to other mdps kills whole idea of class.

Maybe you didnt know about this thread because happened just when you joined ROR, but well...there was life before any of us joined the server:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=36612&hilit=whirling+axe&start=30

Things have changed since then, but still WL is a solid mdps, lets not pretend that WLs are useless mdps hitting like wet noodles...check some vids of solid guilds => on Xergon channel (youtube ) you can find some vids of TUP

You are a known troll for now, but I will respond to you this time. You know when BW bomb wb's were meta in city and now they aren't and everybody tries to build melee train wbs? now use imagination and think about the possibility that if one realm invents some strategic approach to the game most of the time the other realm is caught in surprise, which results in series of wins until the other side adapts to it. This is what happened in that case which was many months ago.

So we should nerf WL pounce because it was op year ago and since than city meta is dominated by slayers that are much stronger in city than wl? do you understand how stupid that argument is?

Also when I said that WLs were weak mdps classes who hit like wet noodles? stop lying. I say that labeling WL damage as ENERMOUS is plainly wrong, because slayer/choppa deal more dmg, and mara/sh deal roughly the same dmg by having more utility.