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[Sorc] Suggestions

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dwyur
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[Sorc] Suggestions

Post#1 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:55 pm

Though overblown I think most people agree BW are superior to Sorc in variety of different ways. Single target was supposed to be the Sorc's 'better' spec, while BW better 'AoE', though this is not the case anymore with BW getting the same ST debuffing tactic I believe Sorc has, along with better CC/knockdown etcetc. I haven't played BW only read the differences and seen playstyles in action.

One suggestion I'd have as change would be having Shadow of Disaster tactic operate like Chilling Gusts tactic right above it; include Ice Spikes with the Shadow of Disaster tactic that has Chillwind debuffing Spirit Resistance. It can be cleansed anyway and with group cleanse tactics it can be easily negated. It would give Sorc's another spec option, and it meshes with Chilling Gusts. Right now many AoE specs go up Impending Doom in Path of Agony tree and also get Tapping the Dark support tactic. Having SoD include Ice Spikes, with a maybe lesser resistance # or just a cap on possible target application, would be a different more offensive option going up to Chilling Gusts & SoD, would create more hybrid type of builds possibly as well
i don't know how it would work in practice but it seems like a change that has benefits while also being easily negated with focused play from opposite faction

I'm only RR56 on sorc recently playing a lot more again, and enjoying Sorc but only Conq gear I haven't tried cities yet so obviously not speaking as expert on class.


Figured this thread could be used for other more experienced players to give their opinion on such a change + elaborate on any ideas they might have to better the class/what other issues might be.
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Naelar
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Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#2 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:17 pm

A cleanse would be nice. As would some M4s that don't suck so bad compared to our counterpart.

Caduceus
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Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#3 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:20 pm

One thing the Sorc lacks is a decent ranged AoE M4, and I believe this is part of the reason why Destro underperforms in keeps and forts.

- Unleash the Winds only has 30ft range and spreads immunities.

- Soul Stealer only does 1200 damage in 20ft range. The heal and the AP drain obviously have very limited utility. Not to mention the dreadful position in the career trees.

- Crippling Terror is decent but only hits a maximum of 9 targets. Moreover, it is affected by immunities, making it very hard to get the full effect out of this M4. Also awkward position in the tree.

- Paralyzing Nightmares does equal damage to Unleash the Winds (1800) and also has 30ft range. Instead of a punt it roots. Not really all that useful in keep fights.

Four very 'meh' M4s, whereas other dps classes get massive ranged nukes. They are so underwhelming that I believe Wind-Woven Shell (an M2!) is often a better alternative!


The second issue with Sorc AoE is that the whole Destruction tree feels rather randomly thrown together. There is little synergy. The abilities do little more than provide an alternative to spells you already get by default.

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catholicism198
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Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#4 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:48 pm

Sorcs have garbage M4s, but so do a lot of other classes.
As someone that has played both, they each have one benefit or another.

The whole x y z can be purged argument is true for every class. more so for magus/engineer than the others.

Sorc and BWs have always had the same debuff tactic, the same (range and melee) aoe spammables, and similar utility.
You could've argued that the BW is significantly better than the Sorc back when Sorcs did not have Shatter, but once they were given that morale, the gap vanished.

With regards to the BW stun, it's a troll ability. Nothing more.
Investing so heavily into that mastery for that ability nets you a few laughs but costs you far more.

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dwyur
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Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#5 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:16 am

catholicism198 wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:48 pm
Sorcs have garbage M4s, but so do a lot of other classes.
As someone that has played both, they each have one benefit or another.

The whole x y z can be purged argument is true for every class. more so for magus/engineer than the others.

Sorc and BWs have always had the same debuff tactic, the same (range and melee) aoe spammables, and similar utility.
You could've argued that the BW is significantly better than the Sorc back when Sorcs did not have Shatter, but once they were given that morale, the gap vanished.

With regards to the BW stun, it's a troll ability. Nothing more.
Investing so heavily into that mastery for that ability nets you a few laughs but costs you far more.
so you're argument is due to Shatter M2 morale, Sorcs are now on par with BW?

I've found that using Focused Mind M2 for Shattered Shadows is better than Shatter
if Shatter is so good I feel like I would see people discussing running the morale pump tactic for shatter spams, but i think i maybe saw that mentioned a single time in all the threads i've tried to go back through to gather information.

not saying you're wrong as i've said i'm no expert on the issues, but it would be contrary to what i have seen people discuss here and elsewhere with Sorc / BW.
even if shatter is at whatever effectiveness you're thinking about, i'm not sure how that would, as you said "make the gap vanish" between the classes and solve the gripes i've seen
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catholicism198
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Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#6 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:12 am

The BWs m2 was the only skill that created a major gap between the two classes’ ae burst potential. It’s what people complained about the most.
I haven’t followed the latest nerf this nerf that chatter, so I cannot speak about what people are complaining about now.

Aside from the garbage m4s, nothing else is really placing sorcs below BWs.

*like every other class, your damage is going to suck until you’re geared.

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Charon
Posts: 276

Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#7 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:18 am

catholicism198 wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:12 am
The BWs m2 was the only skill that created a major gap between the two classes’ ae burst potential. It’s what people complained about the most.
I haven’t followed the latest nerf this nerf that chatter, so I cannot speak about what people are complaining about now.

Aside from the garbage m4s, nothing else is really placing sorcs below BWs.

*like every other class, your damage is going to suck until you’re geared.
sorc st is better than bw + sorc has more options to buff it pt and access to stackable spiryt and corp dmg resist debuff. With dmg morale nerf, armour set progression, overall squishiness, new tc to chosen, old BO Savin me Hide - BW is moving aside as main order wb and 6 man DPS an is taking position as a additional pressure provider like eng . Try to win solo ranked with bw ...good luck.
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wiscel
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Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#8 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:06 am

I'm quite happy with my sorceress. Only thing I wish for are a remove snare and a cleanse.
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Atropik
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Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#9 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:27 am

Charon wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:18 am
sorc st is better than bw + sorc has more options to buff it pt and access to stackable spiryt and corp dmg resist debuff. With dmg morale nerf, armour set progression, overall squishiness, new tc to chosen, old BO Savin me Hide - BW is moving aside as main order wb and 6 man DPS an is taking position as a additional pressure provider like eng . Try to win solo ranked with bw ...good luck.
The existence of FBB(which is the strongest st instant nuke on both classes)+Funnel power makes bw st far superior to sorc. Sorc only benefit from ID and HoR make spirit damage, and thats basicly it, unless you bring Swell of Gloom which is doubtful cause it has a terrible drawback and overshined by Frozen Fury/Crown of Fire in terms of dmg output and utility.

All the options to buff party that determine sorc from bw are count as 1 - Infernal Gift, which does not benefit the sorc itself, and 2 - TTD - which is 250 damage (omg!) absorb on aura trigger proc. With all the respect, these 2 options does not look promising.

Accessible corp debuff requires BO or Zeal to be put inside sorcs mastery, moreover they need to be properly speccd for 13pt WAAAGH in case of BO or tactic slot and willingness to go into melee range and debuff your opponents with 45ft frontal aoe instead of afk healing in a backline for zeal, ridiculous isnt it? And thn sorc does not really need corp debuff, cause all the corporeal nukes sorc has are Doombolt, Aoe Silence and Disarm which can be excluded from the st rotation xd

Sorc was put aside as a dps since the very beginning of RoR by the simple fact of WL class existence. And this is a real tragedy for me, I doubt there is another pair of classes where one completely overshine and counters the other. And there is nothing you can do about it from a sorc player perspective, you basicly cant run, for multiple reasons, you cant overdps WL cause he has pet and aa haste coming from heavy axe, he has the strongest armor debuff in game which is undefendable (for some reason?) and mighty nuke at the same time, you cant overlast him cause you sacrifice you wounds for dealing damage, you cant detaunt and ignore him cause there are two sources of damage and even the minor one, which is a pet, can easily beat the sorc being properly controlled.

But lets go back to Sorc/BW relations, dont get me wrong here, both classes rely on the same rotations here and the rotations are pretty much clear and equal, sorc has some benefit from kind of debuff it offers, BW simply has more abilities, but what is more important - BW has much more utility for himself:
- Pyroclastic has no 10 sec cd, and has disorient,
- WH offers instant snare component, it last for 3 secs only, but it still can be enough for breaking the distance,
- BW has Cauterize, which is realy nice tool, far better then the Obsession on sorc.
- BW still has Heart of Fire m3, which is basically the Cleansing Wing that saved my ass so many times.
- BW has something to do with his mastery points after lvl 36/40, i mean there are options - you can go for KD or FFB or you can mix KD with Burntrough after 70+full sov, as for sorc - there is no point fo progression after 36/40 besides gear at all, you can waste you mastery - nobody will feel the difference,
- Burn through which is ultimatively the best tactic both classes can ever dream aboud, god, id trade all the tactics i have on my sorc for simply have accessible Burn through to go.
- Funnel Power which is just a raw dmg bonus.

What sorc brings over BW:
- Core disarm, which is mostly a panic button that never saved my life even being properly used, its weird cause being disarmed you still can run, use pot and detaunt,
- Ress. self-buff, which is useless, cause logic answer for being focused by magi is Misdirection m1,
- Sorc can warm up faster due Ice Spikes and IW meet no target requirements,
- There is a frontal core aoe nuke on sorc, yes, it is called Infernal Wave, in case you would like to bomb in 2020.
- Nova/HoR share spiritual dmg, yeah, nice.
- You have to deal with WLs, from morning until dawn, they will blindly jump on you no matter the cost, good luck.
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Jabba
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Re: [Sorc] Suggestions

Post#10 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:50 am

Sorc 100% has a better 'full' burst rotation in single target than BW.

BW has less burst but more sustained single target damage because of things like FBB, which also gives them some splash aoe.

Their aoe specs have a far greater discrepancy in power level compared to their single target specs however imo
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