Slayer ID+Rampage+CD reduction over performing

[Wam]

slayers are not unbeatable like you make them out to be, there is many counters has quite alot of posters have already pointed out

you can strip rampage, you can interupt retribution, you can reduce their dmg, out kite them... its not a I win button, it is strong, just like if you bring any decent composition it would be strong, stacking white lions, even good BW's (rare breed unfortunately) equally strong and also have counters.

Maybe you need to adapt, and improve your own gameplay if they are a problem for you, people from your own alliance should be able to give you some tips if you cannot pick up the amount of advice already in this thread.

If you bring wrong compo and meet then that is Rock,paper, scissors problem or individual/collective skill level problem...

You use to stack many marauders in pnp, and you stack over 2 warbands in orvr and you complain about a handful of slayer stacking? you see the irony? Why whine to try get something nerfed instead of improve own knowledge and work on counters? from your history it seems repetitive theme to try get enemy nerfed instead of work on self.

There isn't that many challenges to begin with left on order and you want to limit their choices even more? then im sure you would complain about whatever they picked next which gave you trouble...

[Ramlaen]

*stacking choppa n mara = fine*

*stacking slayers = not fine*

which means we cant melee train our enemy anymore, pls fix

You mean like how order whined and got Mara nerfed?


Interesting how only Order can have the AOE deathball.

guys i advertised in lfg chat for good players only for city and we still died in 3 seconds to 8 slayer wb despite only having good players

we need to seriously talk about some nerfs here

This is EXACTLY what Order did only a few weeks ago.

Today I learned that Marauder AoE damage being tuned to match White Lion AoE damage means Destro can no longer meatball.

[Acidic]

You use to stack many marauders in pnp, and you stack over 2 warbands in orvr and you complain about a handful of slayer stacking? you see the irony? Why whine to try get something nerfed instead of improve own knowledge and work on counters? from your history it seems repetitive theme to try get enemy nerfed instead of work on self.

Well this is actual wrong but more importantly has nothing to do with the suggestions. I don’t care what ppl think of me but I expect you to asnswer suggestions with your opinion of the change rather than trying to sh.t talk ppl.

[wargrimnir]

I should make some custom Order-biased and Destro-biased titles to throw on people when it's clear they're drowning in their own kool-aid.

[Cobra81]

Order loses so many forts/cities because they are bad players they said. Because they are unorganized they said. Nothing to do with the classes they said....
If order take this advice and starting to win 1/3 of the city instances, the same people say "NERF THEM."

Maybe Destros loses because they are really bad and unorganized and cant find a way/strategy that takes more than GTDC-AE Slain Order.

Maybe get better and organize better, but its still enough to win 8-16, so dont worry.

[Wam]

You use to stack many marauders in pnp, and you stack over 2 warbands in orvr and you complain about a handful of slayer stacking? you see the irony? Why whine to try get something nerfed instead of improve own knowledge and work on counters? from your history it seems repetitive theme to try get enemy nerfed instead of work on self.

Well this is actual wrong but more importantly has nothing to do with the suggestions. I don’t care what ppl think of me but I expect you to asnswer suggestions with your opinion of the change rather than trying to sh.t talk ppl.

you have priors when it comes to DND bw's a few years ago and getting that nerfed... you have complained about what we have run in the past also once you fight something that gives you problems you complain instead of adapt and overcome like the majority of playerbase instead of go to forums and seek change.

I wasn't trying to talk **** I gave you some constructive feedback.

You use to run many morale drain mara's, you run 40+ on discord, how is this factually wrong?

Running a stack of something strong got pro's and con's. You should be more worried about a well rounded group that is blended. If you brought a comp which was weak/wrong/out played and got beat its just the nature of the beast, it ultimately don't matter there will be other cities. If you bring scissors and enemy bring rock you ain't going to win. That is not class overperforming...

If you argue slayer is OP then choppa is equally OP... but realm wise order has less choices so you see it more op than it actually is, which is very destro biased if you want even more easier wins than the majority of destro cities are.

There is difference between being strong and being OP. I've beaten slayer stacks with weaker setup, and ive technically lost as slayer stack also... ofc each city has many different variables that come down to individuals more than "class balance".

[Xergon]

*stacking choppa n mara = fine*

*stacking slayers = not fine*

which means we cant melee train our enemy anymore, pls fix

You mean like how order whined and got Mara nerfed?

Spoiler:

ID is applied on an enemy, you cannot control where it hits, unlike channelled aoe skills; it will hit around the target which can easily made irrelevant by spreading out. Which order usually have to do because in destro melee ball even tanks do alot of aoe dmg so you have to avoid it

Yea, but clearly, for some destro groups, concept of spreading out is unknown therm, since, their only gameplay was to ball up...

looks like its not a faction issue since order made the same about marauder aoe dmg....or maybe the same ppl who whined about marauder just Xrealm and now complain about slayer...who knows

It should never get buffed in 1st place, at least not AoE spec. Mara still remains as solid AoE MDPS for destro, AoE KD and AoE damage pressure, AoE interrupt, but it should not be ur main source of dmg.

[wonshot]

Instead of blowing bellows and challenges early vs a slayer stack, saving the aoe knockdown. Having a winds of insanity ready hiding under a blackorc body should be plenty of "counters" to break some of the Rampage + ID uptime.

But speaking of the uptime of Rampage, that is probably the area I would attack if i had any balancing power. If Rampage is up too often, while the slayers are slotting tactics to not drop rage, then i could maaaaybe see that as an issue, but again either they do this and use tactic resources while being super squishy unable to drop their rage. or they have the rampage buildup time going from Green to yellow to red, making their damage sort of predictable.
(just like order have to organize and assign taunters to meatballs, choppapulls, mera spins and zealot puts - then i guess destro have to press tabtarget and see "oh its a slayer stack, save your big class cooldowns to when they actually burst)

Fluff buddy, as Wam correctly pointed out you do have a post history of complaining about unmitigateable damage sources. Back in DnD it was the BW M2 and you got that nerfed (temp) and now its slayer unmitgated rampage + ID. Look, I get it. As a tank you hate to see all your tanky stats ignored or directly bypassed. But that is just a counter to your archtype. Just like your M2 Bellow, challenge and taunt is a counter to mine.

Personally I would just run a full utility interruption Meatball with armorstacking (something that is actually too strong compared to intented) and plowing through the slayers with Outta my way when they pop rampage and be a pain in the butt. Im not saying that is the keysolution, but that is taking one of Destro's realm advantages and using it as a counter against some of Order's.

Anyways enjoy your cities, let me know when orvr campaign not overshadowed by 50players wanting to do 6v6 ranked and get most of the development time compared 5-10 orvr guild-rosters for warbandplay during eu prime.

[hammerite]

Sorry for interference, but, you know, there is an ability on destro called Furious Howl - BG's aoe debuff for -10% parry and -10% block, being core and without requirements, having 15 sec duration and 10 sec cooldown, meaning it is almost permanent, especially if it lands first time - second time its almost guaranteed.
Add strikethrough from 2hander and...

And order's analogue - staggering impact - is 13 points on kobs offensive tree with 10 sec duration and 30 sec cooldown.

Yay balance.

[Acidic]

Summary of the feedback

Most have agreed that this combo is very strong, although few agree with this proposal
The inclusion of the Slayer own CD reduction tactic makes me even more believe ID should have its Cooldown increased

There is significant responses off to the side with claims to understand the inspiration for the post, none have actually addressed the overperformance of ID rampage combo in confined spaces , (this is easy way to load up 24 cap undefendable damage increasing burst and specifically confined areas such as chocke points its over performing)

There is large amount of folk mentioning that ID is not spammed yet stilll see an issue increasing it cd to 10+ seconds and the feedback is thethis is not “spammed” meaning increase in cd should not have a significant effect

@wosnot I believe rampage is the base issue but think that wether or not I would like to removing block immunity or halving its uptime I think that is too much at this time (and yes I have made a balance proposal long time ago along the rampage line, into void)