Slayer ID+Rampage+CD reduction over performing

[Elemint]

Little quiz question for all you WB sized theorycrafters:
At what point into the 10 seconds WW window does the Slayer A, swapping targets and applying ID (370 damage on target and another 355 AoE CLEANSABLE tick every two seconds) outdamage Slayer B, spamming Flurry ( 465 average damage)? Assume they both use the ability in 1.5 second intervals and hit 8 targets.
A) From the beginning
B) After 4.5s
C) After 6s
D) Never

[Gravord]

There is limited counters to this and any counter rely on significant timing.

1. Ap drain
2. Shatter enchant
3. Kd
4. Kb
5. Disarm
6. Challenge
7. Cleanse
8. M2 tank
9. M4 tank
10. Cd reduce from BO/Chop
11. CD increase that slayer from BO
12. WS/Str/Crit debuff reduce dmg further
13. Focus him? Literally top 2 softest mdps in game

Saying "Limited counters" sounds like a really long stretch in this case.

[Xergon]

Little quiz question for all you WB sized theorycrafters:
At what point into the 10 seconds WW window does the Slayer A, swapping targets and applying ID (370 damage on target and another 355 AoE CLEANSABLE tick every two seconds) outdamage Slayer B, spamming Flurry ( 465 average damage)? Assume they both use the ability in 1.5 second intervals and hit 8 targets.
A) From the beginning
B) After 4.5s
C) After 6s
D) Never

E) After getting immunity from GTDC

[Foofmonger]

Little quiz question for all you WB sized theorycrafters:
At what point into the 10 seconds WW window does the Slayer A, swapping targets and applying ID (370 damage on target and another 355 AoE CLEANSABLE tick every two seconds) outdamage Slayer B, spamming Flurry ( 465 average damage)? Assume they both use the ability in 1.5 second intervals and hit 8 targets.
A) From the beginning
B) After 4.5s
C) After 6s
D) Never

To be fair, just because there are people who don't know why ID is strong doesn't make it "not strong".

So yea, you don't "spam ID" that's stupid. It's like spamming a DoT lol. You just keep it up as needed on the enemy group, and spam flurry otherwise (and/or other abilities as necessary of course).

The power of the Slayer is it's "cascading damage" in that they can stack both ID ticks on top of Flurry spam. As I said in my last post, it's certainly strong but completely counterable by a variety of methods.

[Elemint]

To be fair, just because there are people who don't know why ID is strong doesn't make it "not strong".

So yea, you don't "spam ID" that's stupid. It's like spamming a DoT lol. You just keep it up as needed on the enemy group, and spam flurry otherwise (and/or other abilities as necessary of course).

The power of the Slayer is it's "cascading damage" in that they can stack both ID ticks on top of Flurry spam. As I said in my last post, it's certainly strong but completely counterable by a variety of methods.

My man OP didn't say anything about using flurry, he said spam ID, so i merely assumed that he means spam ID.

[agemennon675]

ID is applied on an enemy, you cannot control where it hits, unlike channelled aoe skills; it will hit around the target which can easily made irrelevant by spreading out. Which order usually have to do because in destro melee ball even tanks do alot of aoe dmg so you have to avoid it

[Foofmonger]

To be fair, just because there are people who don't know why ID is strong doesn't make it "not strong".

So yea, you don't "spam ID" that's stupid. It's like spamming a DoT lol. You just keep it up as needed on the enemy group, and spam flurry otherwise (and/or other abilities as necessary of course).

The power of the Slayer is it's "cascading damage" in that they can stack both ID ticks on top of Flurry spam. As I said in my last post, it's certainly strong but completely counterable by a variety of methods.

My man OP didn't say anything about using flurry, he said spam ID, so i merely assumed that he means spam ID.

You're right, no argument here. Just want to clarify whats going on for anyone reading this thread who may not have a deep understanding of the topic at hand.

[Xergon]

ID is applied on an enemy, you cannot control where it hits, unlike channelled aoe skills; it will hit around the target which can easily made irrelevant by spreading out. Which order usually have to do because in destro melee ball even tanks do alot of aoe dmg so you have to avoid it

Yea, but clearly, for some destro groups, concept of spreading out is unknown therm, since, their only gameplay was to ball up...

[Foofmonger]

ID is applied on an enemy, you cannot control where it hits, unlike channelled aoe skills; it will hit around the target which can easily made irrelevant by spreading out. Which order usually have to do because in destro melee ball even tanks do alot of aoe dmg so you have to avoid it

Yea, but clearly, for some destro groups, concept of spreading out is unknown therm, since, their only gameplay was to ball up...

More or less. Another important thing to do when countering the slayer ball is healer positioning. Often times, the slayer ball will try to roll over healers, and if they don't all scatter in different directions it allows the Slayer ball to catch 2-3+ in the spam which is a disaster for the destro group. The main point is: Healers need to stay away from each other and not all run the same direction. Otherwise what happens is that tanks will try to guard swap to save the 2-3 healers who get caught, they get caught up in the ID/Rampage/Flurry spam, and they also die with the healers. DPS will then try to go save them, which ends up with destro blobbing around this disaster which is exactly what the Order team wants to happen.

[Valarion]

..........Another important thing to do when countering the slayer ball is healer positioning. Often times, the slayer ball will try to roll over healers, and if they don't all scatter in different directions it allows the Slayer ball to catch 2-3+ in the spam which is a disaster for the destro group. The main point is: Healers need to stay away from each other and not all run the same direction. Otherwise what happens is that tanks will try to guard swap to save the 2-3 healers who get caught, they get caught up in the ID/Rampage/Flurry spam, and they also die with the healers. DPS will then try to go save them, which ends up with destro blobbing around this disaster which is exactly what the Order team wants to happen.

This should be at the top of the list.

The best single counter to slayer stacking is for the healers to spread out and insta cross rez when needed. Truthfully, its a hard counter to just about all melee trains and PBAoE bomb groups as well. You dont have to be a Kung Fu master to realize you cant all be hit if you arent all in the same place. The top Alliances already know this and practice this.

IMHO, since the shattered limb nerfs, slayers are in an alright place atm and do not need to be further adjusted. Slayers are a bit op yes, particularly in stacks of slayers, but there are viable counters and Im a huge fan of rewarding countering and more intelligent play. We could reevalute if there are an ocean of new slayers that emerge and counters break, but as it stands now slayers are an underplayed class and do not need further nerfing.

Rather than nerfs, I'd much rather see buffs to counters or boosts to movement that favors better positioning but Im just old school like that.