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Choppa's Pull

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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CountTalabecland
Posts: 979

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#51 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:17 pm

farng84 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:05 pm
Grimstuck wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:00 pm i only want fairness between our 2 important classes , one is overpowered with a noblock parry M1 unkillable and tank killer

and the other is a Glasscannon verry verry brittle with GTDC , its good but too easy for interupt at 65 ft

for an other way we have 1 chance on all enchantment to dispel it, and only tank can do it with 5s CD at the mele range ...
I agree, that's why I always post the question regarding the number of choppa necessary to kill a slayer.
I would like the same amount of balance for other classes too. If that could be achieved choosing order or destro would be just matter of which look/concept you like better, which would be awesome
Be gone with your 100% mirrors. This is not WoW or some other red vs. blue game. The balance is an indirect mirror for a reason, so that the factions are not clones. Order is simply asking that GTDC respect immunities and have a flight time that isnt bugged, and have a minimum distance so that is behaves like the other rules for melee pulls.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Grimstuck
Posts: 36

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#52 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:24 pm

CountTalabecland wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:17 pm
farng84 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:05 pm
Grimstuck wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:00 pm i only want fairness between our 2 important classes , one is overpowered with a noblock parry M1 unkillable and tank killer

and the other is a Glasscannon verry verry brittle with GTDC , its good but too easy for interupt at 65 ft

for an other way we have 1 chance on all enchantment to dispel it, and only tank can do it with 5s CD at the mele range ...
I agree, that's why I always post the question regarding the number of choppa necessary to kill a slayer.
I would like the same amount of balance for other classes too. If that could be achieved choosing order or destro would be just matter of which look/concept you like better, which would be awesome
Be gone with your 100% mirrors. This is not WoW or some other red vs. blue game. The balance is an indirect mirror for a reason, so that the factions are not clones. Order is simply asking that GTDC respect immunities and have a flight time that isnt bugged, and have a minimum distance so that is behaves like the other rules for melee pulls.
why you want to GTDC respect immunities and Rampage dosn't ?
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Gurf
Posts: 519

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#53 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:25 pm

Grimstuck wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:00 pm i only want fairness between our 2 important classes , one is overpowered with a noblock parry, M1 unkillable and are best tank killer in the game

and the other is a Glasscannon verry verry brittle with GTDC , its good but too easy for interupt at 65 ft

for an other way we have 1 chance on all enchantment to dispel it, and only tank can do it with 5s CD at the mele range ...

its that for you have mirror classes and balance between order and destro ?
How is Choppa any more brittle than Slayer? in fact because of racial tactics Choppa can have a lot more wounds, while the Dwarf armour tactic gets mitigated by the mechanic making it useless a lot of the time. Choppa / Slayer are one of the most balanced pairings in game, it is only that GTDC is an incredible annoying ability because it makes you loose control of your character with no possibility of counter, and having absolutely no control is what players hate the most, such CC is one of the reasons why live failed as players spent half their life being knocked around rather than actually playing. So even if GTDC isn't OP it is a stupid ability to add to the game. Every other pull you can see coming, or counter in some way if you react fast enough, GTDC you can't because the pull is instant so taunt is likely to be too late.

Play as a squishie on Order and you will see how "useless" GTDC is, 9 times out of 10 it is death if you go anywhere near a Choppa as he pulls you into a melee group, at least Slayer has to extend to try to kill anything, Choppa can bring everything to them easily staying in guard and heal range.

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farng84
Posts: 158

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#54 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:26 pm

CountTalabecland wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:17 pm
farng84 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:05 pm
Grimstuck wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:00 pm i only want fairness between our 2 important classes , one is overpowered with a noblock parry M1 unkillable and tank killer

and the other is a Glasscannon verry verry brittle with GTDC , its good but too easy for interupt at 65 ft

for an other way we have 1 chance on all enchantment to dispel it, and only tank can do it with 5s CD at the mele range ...
I agree, that's why I always post the question regarding the number of choppa necessary to kill a slayer.
I would like the same amount of balance for other classes too. If that could be achieved choosing order or destro would be just matter of which look/concept you like better, which would be awesome
Be gone with your 100% mirrors. This is not WoW or some other red vs. blue game. The balance is an offset mirror for a reason. Order is simply asking that GTDC respect immunities and have a flight time that isnt bugged, and have a minimum distance so that is behaves like the other rules for melee pulls.
I agree that bugs should be corrected, always.
But I did not say perfect mirror, I said balance, which means equivalence... If BW is a little stronger on aoe and Scorc a little better on single target it is balanced but the class concepts (and looks) are very different. If one of the two parts is too weak there is no balance and one class sucks.
Like I said balance should be two sided, asking "please dev make their strong points as weak as our weak points but leave our strength unmatched" is just sad. And that was the theme of this post as that of most posts requesting nerfs.

Overall, the point I always make in my posts is ask for proper balance or don't even bother writing...

User avatar
farng84
Posts: 158

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#55 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:27 pm

Gurf wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:25 pm
Grimstuck wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:00 pm i only want fairness between our 2 important classes , one is overpowered with a noblock parry, M1 unkillable and are best tank killer in the game

and the other is a Glasscannon verry verry brittle with GTDC , its good but too easy for interupt at 65 ft

for an other way we have 1 chance on all enchantment to dispel it, and only tank can do it with 5s CD at the mele range ...

its that for you have mirror classes and balance between order and destro ?
How is Choppa any more brittle than Slayer? in fact because of racial tactics Choppa can have a lot more wounds, while the Dwarf armour tactic gets mitigated by the mechanic making it useless a lot of the time. Choppa / Slayer are one of the most balanced pairings in game, it is only that GTDC is an incredible annoying ability because it makes you loose control of your character with no possibility of counter, and having absolutely no control is what players hate the most, such CC is one of the reasons why live failed as players spent half their life being knocked around rather than actually playing. So even if GTDC isn't OP it is a stupid ability to add to the game. Every other pull you can see coming, or counter in some way if you react fast enough, GTDC you can't because the pull is instant so taunt is likely to be too late.

Play as a squishie on Order and you will see how "useless" GTDC is, 9 times out of 10 it is death if you go anywhere near a Choppa as he pulls you into a melee group, at least Slayer has to extend to try to kill anything, Choppa can bring everything to them easily staying in guard and heal range.
Sorry but it is just true, choppa might have more HP but it is more brittle

Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#56 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:32 pm

40 ft pull radius when guard is 30 is too much I think

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Grimstuck
Posts: 36

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#57 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:33 pm

just compare our M1 and the M1 of slayer ...

i level up a slayer atm for comparesion , and now i never want to play my choppa anymore wtf its so busted ...

just take back GTDC and give us Rampage ...

its a no match
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Gurf
Posts: 519

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#58 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:37 pm

farng84 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:27 pm
Sorry but it is just true, choppa might have more HP but it is more brittle
So if you keep saying it suddenly it becomes more true? Choppa can have more wounds than slayer, same armour same mechanic, many of the abilities like to reduce enemy crit and increase toughness are mirrored. As far as I can see Choppa has more survivability than slayer, with GTDC they don't ever need to extend. How often do you see a Slayer run after a Shammy then get melted because they over extend? How often do you see a Choppa do the same with AM or RP? never

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Rapzel
Posts: 390

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#59 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:39 pm

Remove GTDC for all I care, boring and bad ability if you fully channel it, mainly used because how channels work to buff damage. It's okay at best in cities. For pushes and 6vs6/scs it's garbage and just annoys your tanks. Would rather see choppas get a small scale buff instead. But no one has come up with a good enough replacement, so here we are.

My suggestions for making Slayer a bit more in line, has been making rampage 13 points, or something like a 10 sec m1.
First change was before +2 mastery sov, but that would force slayers to get 7 piece sov, which hilariously enough is worse than invader when it comes to the damage output.
2nd one I don't know how it would work with the changes to moral.

User avatar
Grimstuck
Posts: 36

Re: Choppa's Pull

Post#60 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:40 pm

Gurf wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:37 pm
farng84 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:27 pm
Sorry but it is just true, choppa might have more HP but it is more brittle
So if you keep saying it suddenly it becomes more true? Choppa can have more wounds than slayer, same armour same mechanic, many of the abilities like to reduce enemy crit and increase toughness are mirrored. As far as I can see Choppa has more survivability than slayer, with GTDC they don't ever need to extend. How often do you see a Slayer run after a Shammy then get melted because they over extend? How often do you see a Choppa do the same with AM or RP? never
can u read or what ? do you see the M1 of Choppa and Slayer ?
do you know Slayer can Parry and choppa not ? ( thx rampage )
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