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Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

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doxifera
Posts: 120

Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#1 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:55 pm

Magus/Engi mechanics aren’t working because in massive battles such as a city or a fort, the pet is constantly dead. AoE spam just kills it instantly and all you left is to resummon it every 5 seconds. As a result, there is no DMG, no AP. It just doesn't work. There is no positioning problem here, because in the case of such battles, collisions occur head-on.
There are several options for solving this problem:
1. Decrease the damage received from AoE by the demon/turret by ~90% (we need to get 8 stacks of buff, this takes ~ 14 seconds).
Reducing the damage received from AoE does not affect the possibility of targeted killing of a pet using single target skills;

2. Make the demon/turret susceptible to group heal / buffs (possibly in combination with reduced AoE damage).
With this option, the pet's life will depend on the group (heal, buffs), but at the same time it will make the pet more resistant to killing it with single target skills.

3. Combine the tactics of Instant Summon with the tactics for Pet Wounds (possibly in a partial combination with the previous ones), reduce the cost of the summon to 0 AP by default (or integrate it into a new tactic).
This option does not solve the problem of permanent death, only slightly prolongs the life of the pet and reduces the costs in the form of a drawdown in the AP for its resummoning.

4. Implement a new skill for Magus/Engi - "Demon absorption"/"Engineering upgrade". This skill kills the currently summoned demon/turret and gives a positive effect, the effect is constant until a new demon/turret is summoned(so u can change it for situation) - this effect gives 8 stacks of buffs of the absorbed demon/turret and possibly the main skill as an ability for the master (Pink/Gun gives Daemonic Fire/Penetrating Round, Flamer/Bombardment gives Flames of Change/High-Explosive Grenade, Blue/Flame - Warping Energy/Flamethrower).
This option is an alternative for the "Loner" tactics. Since "Loner" tactics for Magus/Engi hard to implemented — we have 3 pets, each is situational, if one tactic will contain all 3 buffs (range, speed, evade) - this will violate the class concept. And the implementation of 3 separate tactics for each pet - also violates the concept of class, so how to change tactics in battle does not work, as well as adjust to the situation.

The problem is old, it is necessary to solve it.
P.S. Wl has both "Loner" tactic and a decrease in AoE damage for a pet, Magus/Engi mechanics also deserve attention. Imagine a situation where the mechanics of other class are reset every couple of seconds, then you will understand why it does not work.

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Crumbs
Posts: 158

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#2 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:28 am

+1 it's a further kick to the nuts that we don't only start to lose stacks when the pet dies, we instantly lose x4 upon death and probably another 1-2 in reaction time. So what happens is you start a fight with x8 and then the pet dies, stacks are back to 3-4, you resummon instantly to try cover losses, it dies instantly and you lose the rest of the stacks... just like that.

And then from then on you will be getting no damage bonus no pet mechanic because all 3 of pets will die on respawn constanrly resetting stacks back to 0, at the same time we still NEED the pet so we are trying to find a window where it lasts longer than 2 seconds, so we're resummoning them on cooldown spending 55ap constantly, so we're on 0 AP 90% of the time. And in short the entire city our main priority is resummoning pets and trying to do something with our suffocating AP

Someone explain to me how that **** is not broken, this isn't whinging, it's trying to give those in power that don't play or witness the class in action - some understanding,.

The OP has recommended some good ideas especially its mitigation to aoe damage, please take them into consideration now, it's been long enough and it will only get worse with current circumstances. We need some acknowledgement of this issue so we can start moving forward to play this great game
Mekanik [engi] 40/85
[magus] 40/70

doxifera
Posts: 120

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#3 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:47 pm

Crumbs wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:28 am
Someone explain to me how that **** is not broken, this isn't whinging, it's trying to give those in power that don't play or witness the class in action - some understanding,.
Exactly

User avatar
wachlarz
Posts: 435

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#4 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:35 pm

Just meaby order have bit too many engis ?

doxifera
Posts: 120

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#5 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:01 pm

wachlarz wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:35 pm
Just meaby order have bit too many engis ?
Destro does not have

teiloh
Posts: 283

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#6 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:57 pm

When I originally made the proposal that Mythic devs worked off of, I also recommended:

1. Making the turret instant cast without tactic, and giving it a summon range of 30 feet. It would however take 2 seconds to activate after being planted on the ground, while still ticking the bonus. This would allow the Engi/Magus much more flexibility in their initial positioning as well as allow for some interesting offensive plays.

2. The tactic would be changed to instantly build the turret/demon, while lowering AP costs for summon and re-summon.

3. Stats would be reviewed on a skill by skill basis, and leveled in a way so that they are more well-rounded and dependent on spec. That is to say instead of relying on stat contribution from items, they would just have generally higher stats across the board.

4. These were based on the assumption that group buffs/heals would still affect the pets.

doxifera
Posts: 120

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#7 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:11 pm

teiloh wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:57 pm
When I originally made the proposal that Mythic devs worked off of, I also recommended:

1. Making the turret instant cast without tactic, and giving it a summon range of 30 feet. It would however take 2 seconds to activate after being planted on the ground, while still ticking the bonus. This would allow the Engi/Magus much more flexibility in their initial positioning as well as allow for some interesting offensive plays.

2. The tactic would be changed to instantly build the turret/demon, while lowering AP costs for summon and re-summon.

3. Stats would be reviewed on a skill by skill basis, and leveled in a way so that they are more well-rounded and dependent on spec. That is to say instead of relying on stat contribution from items, they would just have generally higher stats across the board.

4. These were based on the assumption that group buffs/heals would still affect the pets.
There are many options, we need to do at least something. Playing is unbearable.

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Drys
Posts: 94

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#8 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:24 pm

Crumbs wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:28 am
+1 it's a further kick to the nuts that we don't only start to lose stacks when the pet dies, we instantly lose x4 upon death and probably another 1-2 in reaction time. So what happens is you start a fight with x8 and then the pet dies, stacks are back to 3-4, you resummon instantly to try cover losses, it dies instantly and you lose the rest of the stacks... just like that.

And then from then on you will be getting no damage bonus no pet mechanic because all 3 of pets will die on respawn constanrly resetting stacks back to 0, at the same time we still NEED the pet so we are trying to find a window where it lasts longer than 2 seconds, so we're resummoning them on cooldown spending 55ap constantly, so we're on 0 AP 90% of the time. And in short the entire city our main priority is resummoning pets and trying to do something with our suffocating AP

Someone explain to me how that **** is not broken, this isn't whinging, it's trying to give those in power that don't play or witness the class in action - some understanding,.

The OP has recommended some good ideas especially its mitigation to aoe damage, please take them into consideration now, it's been long enough and it will only get worse with current circumstances. We need some acknowledgement of this issue so we can start moving forward to play this great game

What about instead of having 4x stacks instantly disappear when pet dies, all stacks persist for 5s after pet death, then start degrading at 4x. That's enough time to re-summon demon/turret and not lose stacks (which would also refresh the 5s persistence). Yes, still annoying pets die so quickly, but it allows you to reposition without sacrificing damage -- also allows greater play using pet without worrying as much about losing dps.
Spoiler:
Drystav - Magus 40/6X
Drysthex - Zealot 40/4X
Drystzyk - Chosen 40/5X
Drystax - Mara 24/2X

Drystal - WE 40/5X
Drystmar - DOK 40/4X
Drystelle - Sorc 40/7X
Drysthorn - BG 40/6X

Drystham - Shaman 40/4X
Drystig - SH 40/5X
Drystlak - BOrc 40/4X

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doxifera
Posts: 120

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#9 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:47 pm

Drys wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:24 pm
Crumbs wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:28 am
+1 it's a further kick to the nuts that we don't only start to lose stacks when the pet dies, we instantly lose x4 upon death and probably another 1-2 in reaction time. So what happens is you start a fight with x8 and then the pet dies, stacks are back to 3-4, you resummon instantly to try cover losses, it dies instantly and you lose the rest of the stacks... just like that.

And then from then on you will be getting no damage bonus no pet mechanic because all 3 of pets will die on respawn constanrly resetting stacks back to 0, at the same time we still NEED the pet so we are trying to find a window where it lasts longer than 2 seconds, so we're resummoning them on cooldown spending 55ap constantly, so we're on 0 AP 90% of the time. And in short the entire city our main priority is resummoning pets and trying to do something with our suffocating AP

Someone explain to me how that **** is not broken, this isn't whinging, it's trying to give those in power that don't play or witness the class in action - some understanding,.

The OP has recommended some good ideas especially its mitigation to aoe damage, please take them into consideration now, it's been long enough and it will only get worse with current circumstances. We need some acknowledgement of this issue so we can start moving forward to play this great game

What about instead of having 4x stacks instantly disappear when pet dies, all stacks persist for 5s after pet death, then start degrading at 4x. That's enough time to re-summon demon/turret and not lose stacks (which would also refresh the 5s persistence). Yes, still annoying pets die so quickly, but it allows you to reposition without sacrificing damage -- also allows greater play using pet without worrying as much about losing dps.
In this case, summon should be 0 AP, with a constant resummon you have no AP left for anything.
But it's a crutch anyway.

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 563

Re: Magus/Engi mechanics not working ...

Post#10 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:31 pm

These are all good proposals but I expect the devs will give this the "not all classes are meant to be good in wbs/fort/cities etc," response.

The meta classes seem to be established for at least the foreseeable future. Go Slayer/Choppa and be good in every situation, WL/mara or Sorc/BW to be good in most, or play every other DPS for hard mode when it comes to trying to get geared in ORvR, forts, and cities.

At least engi can top scen dmg charts. pew pew lol.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/74) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/35) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/77) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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