Return of Reckoning

jvlosky wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:00 pm

This is just straight up wrong, we are talking about viability in oRVR and City environments. SW before the patch wasn't anything special. Literally any other DPS class was better than them save for WH.

Fully agree that SW was not viable in city (I don't see how anyone could argue differently), however I disagree that SW was not viable in ORvR.

I played skirmish SW to great effect in ORvR. Lileath's Arrow is a fantastic spell that really shines in the sort of target-rich environments that ORvR provides. Focused Mind + VoN + Lileath's Arrow is a very powerful combo and one can throw in Barrage for extra burst. SW also has Hail of Doom, which can be a game changer when breaking into and defending forts or keeps. I think SW was underrated in these formats and I was impressed with how they performed compared to other classes I have played.

Perhaps when you said "ORvR" you meant specifically roaming in a 24-man warband, looking for other 24-man warbands to fight, which is basically a minature version of city. ORvR is much more than that, though. Solo and small-scale are also part of ORvR, for example, and in both these formats Ranged SW was completely fine pre-buff.

Caduceus wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:33 pm

jvlosky wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:00 pm

This is just straight up wrong, we are talking about viability in oRVR and City environments. SW before the patch wasn't anything special. Literally any other DPS class was better than them save for WH.

Fully agree that SW was not viable in city (I don't see how anyone could argue differently), however I disagree that SW was not viable in ORvR.

I played skirmish SW to great effect in ORvR. Lileath's Arrow is a fantastic spell that really shines in the sort of target-rich environments that ORvR provides. Focused Mind + VoN + Lileath's Arrow is a very powerful combo and one can throw in Barrage for extra burst. SW also has Hail of Doom, which can be a game changer when breaking into and defending forts or keeps. I think SW was underrated in these formats and I was impressed with how they performed compared to other classes I have played.

Perhaps when you said "ORvR" you meant specifically roaming in a 24-man warband, looking for other 24-man warbands to fight, which is basically a minature version of city. ORvR is much more than that, though. Solo and small-scale are also part of ORvR, for example, and in both these formats Ranged SW was completely fine pre-buff.

I'm gonna have to disagree. Before the patch SW could still do things, just that dmg you are talking about was better with literally any other dps class but WH. You could get the same effect as "Focused Mind + VoN + Lileath's Arrow" with an engineer doing aoe dmg from 100ft+ away, or even better with a bombing BW. Not saying SW did 'nothing' just pretty much every other class was doing it better and they didnt need to wait for a M3 to do it.


SW was blown into obscurity before the patch, save for aSW in SC but ppl were creaming over the 50% heal cut when plenty of other classes have that same ability with wayyyy better damage potential.


Sorry dude but nobody wanted SWs in their wb before the patch if they could help it, and even right now ppl just want 1 for the morale drain.

jvlosky wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:24 am

I'm gonna have to disagree. Before the patch SW could still do things, just that dmg you are talking about was better with literally any other dps class but WH. You could get the same effect as "Focused Mind + VoN + Lileath's Arrow" with an engineer doing aoe dmg from 100ft+ away, or even better with a bombing BW. Not saying SW did 'nothing' just pretty much every other class was doing it better and they didnt need to wait for a M3 to do it.


SW was blown into obscurity before the patch, save for aSW in SC but ppl were creaming over the 50% heal cut when plenty of other classes have that same ability with wayyyy better damage potential.


Sorry dude but nobody wanted SWs in their wb before the patch if they could help it, and even right now ppl just want 1 for the morale drain.

Do you play SW and have you utilized the combo I described?

Caduceus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:14 am

jvlosky wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:24 am

I'm gonna have to disagree. Before the patch SW could still do things, just that dmg you are talking about was better with literally any other dps class but WH. You could get the same effect as "Focused Mind + VoN + Lileath's Arrow" with an engineer doing aoe dmg from 100ft+ away, or even better with a bombing BW. Not saying SW did 'nothing' just pretty much every other class was doing it better and they didnt need to wait for a M3 to do it.


SW was blown into obscurity before the patch, save for aSW in SC but ppl were creaming over the 50% heal cut when plenty of other classes have that same ability with wayyyy better damage potential.


Sorry dude but nobody wanted SWs in their wb before the patch if they could help it, and even right now ppl just want 1 for the morale drain.

Do you play SW and have you utilized the combo I described?

Sadly despite being effective, using cast time decreasers with Lileath's Arrow did not adress lack of viability for Scout - and globally ranged - specs, and the combo was only working on specific situation like main gate/postern defense ; having to rush/chase into blob frontline do not fit with lack of survivability tools, and nerfed aoe from LA did not perform well most of the time.
Lileath useable with Assault stance should have helped a bit (for damage and resistance) but still, it's a very bland skill with only decent crit damage, but no added benefits.

Now with the 5s cd Lileath's Arrow is nerfed to the ground, and will never be used again unless change is reverted.

Caduceus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:14 am

jvlosky wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:24 am

I'm gonna have to disagree. Before the patch SW could still do things, just that dmg you are talking about was better with literally any other dps class but WH. You could get the same effect as "Focused Mind + VoN + Lileath's Arrow" with an engineer doing aoe dmg from 100ft+ away, or even better with a bombing BW. Not saying SW did 'nothing' just pretty much every other class was doing it better and they didnt need to wait for a M3 to do it.


SW was blown into obscurity before the patch, save for aSW in SC but ppl were creaming over the 50% heal cut when plenty of other classes have that same ability with wayyyy better damage potential.


Sorry dude but nobody wanted SWs in their wb before the patch if they could help it, and even right now ppl just want 1 for the morale drain.

Do you play SW and have you utilized the combo I described?

oh you're "Fully agree that SW was not viable in city (I don't see how anyone could argue differently), however I disagree that SW was not viable in ORvR.

I played skirmish SW to great effect in ORvR. Lileath's Arrow is a fantastic spell that really shines in the sort of target-rich environments that ORvR provides. Focused Mind + VoN + Lileath's Arrow is a very powerful combo and one can throw in Barrage for extra burst. SW also has Hail of Doom, which can be a game changer when breaking into and defending forts or keeps. I think SW was underrated in these formats and I was impressed with how they performed compared to other classes I have played.

Perhaps when you said "ORvR" you meant specifically roaming in a 24-man warband, looking for other 24-man warbands to fight, which is basically a minature version of city. ORvR is much more than that, though. Solo and small-scale are also part of ORvR, for example, and in both these formats Ranged SW was completely fine pre-buff."


You realize other classes can provide better aoe dmg pressure than SW, from farther away, and dont have to wait for m2 to do it. They also dont require everyone to be literally lined up for with lileath's arrow.

Yeah your 'pie in the sky' perfect storm occurrence probably puts out tons of dmg but it doesnt hold a candle to the aoe dmg potential of BW or even Engi. Both of which being able to do so from farther from danger than SW on average.

Imagine having to wait for an m2 just to do proper dmg in a wb.

jvlosky wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:45 pm
snip

A BW needs to build combustion. An engineer needs to build turret stacks. Both are significantly less mobile than SW. BW damages themselves in order to do damage. An engineer needs to sacrifice damage, range and mobility if they want maximum AoE potential, etc.

Does it equal out in the end? Maybe. Maybe not. I was never dissatisfied with my SW performance anywhere, except for city. Among the classes I've played at rr60-70 are sorc, magus and engineer, so I think I have a fair frame of reference.

As someone with an 81 grenade engie, and a 71 skirmish (prepatch) sw, it is simply ludicrous to suggest lileath arrow +m2 could even do 1/10th the AOE of what my engie can do. And this is coming from someone who LOVED the old skirmish spec.

jaxamillian wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:12 pm As someone with an 81 grenade engie, and a 71 skirmish (prepatch) sw, it is simply ludicrous to suggest lileath arrow +m2 could even do 1/10th the AOE of what my engie can do. And this is coming from someone who LOVED the old skirmish spec.

that means engie is problem.
in extream cases their dps is ridiculously OP. magus same.
their main issue is too much gap between 0stack and full stack.
but that's another story.

Hey there, new player here (well, I registered in 2019 but did not play until this week)

I know I smash buttons and don't know what I'm doing, like there are many mechanics I have yet to learn but with w/ the VinyUI interface I stumbled upon that DB2 button and this sums up my experience today with a 2H Blackguard against Shadow Warriors. They seem slightly overtuned, don't they?

they are a nerf. I'm not sure how you feel about 24 mans, but changing powerful draw from a 50% range increase to a flat AP increase is the worst offense of all. What is the point of a damage increase if i can't actually reach anyone with it? you can't reach most high level keeps with 65feet of range. There are a few keeps you can reach safely but you are now 40yard within the range of most defenders, putting you at greater risk as a rampart aoer/harasser. The same goes for when you are fighting in the open field, where before i was only slightly inside an enemy's range, i now have to go deep into danger just to experience this "25% armor pen buff"; where as before i could fire from 97yards. Taking away a range increase option from a RANGED class is the worst change. I hope they reconsider this. Shadow Warrior was completely fine ranged wise before this "buff". If you wanted to change something, maybe fiddle around with the melee tree, but the skirmisher abilities and tree worked perfectly.

So who are these changes really for? I believe they are for the casual, the type of player that doesn't put thought into their class, the type who repeats memes about the popular and unpopular classes, but never actually plays them his or herself. They just wanna press buttons, see big numbers.

I just want my old shadow warrior back.