Re: How to change the meta with one ability
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:12 am
Clearly I must be in the minority opinion because I have suggested something like this before, but this nonsense about making it a separate ability with a cooldown is totally the opposite of what I would do.
If I were the devs, I would either make such an anti-rez ability be applied as a debuff when using any of the stealth based attacks (if you want to kinda pigeon-hole WE and WH into only being able to achieve that sort of power when actively being an assassin and making use of the stealth mechanic), or make it apply when a killing blow is achieved through an Execution or Frenzy (if you want to allow a little more flexibility, so a WE or WH could join the melee train and still provide this useful power as long as they're good at landing killing blows). Making it act as a whole separate ability, much less an ability that has a cooldown measured in minutes, means that each WE/WH has frankly negligible impact. The opportunity cost of having a stealther in your WB is still painfully high if all you're getting is maybe the ability to deny one rez every minute or three, especially given how, with detaunts being what they are, the ability for a stealther to actually go and solo someone, at best, results in a 1 for 1 trade, at worst a dead stealther behind enemy lines. Think about it; for every Witch Hunter you take, you're NOT getting a White Lion, or you're NOT getting a Slayer. Is that really worth it if all Witch Hunters can do is deny a rez every minute or three, and only then if they manage to kill someone and then awkwardly use a skill on a corpse?
No, if anti-rez is going to be a thing, it should be a thing that can be applied semi-frequently, and something that is integrated with the rest of their kit. Something that can be applied a couple times a minute as long as the stealther if good enough and has the opportunity to strike. And that "skill" should be measured by one's ability to either make use of stealth (not the easiest thing in a pitched battle because of current stealth detection rules and AoE being what it is, nevermind the raw AP cost of stealthing), or by last hitting with Executions/Frenzies (obviously gets easier the higher stacks you get, but those aren't the easiest thing to build during a melee train, so in effect, this creates a system that lowers the skill floor for getting anti-rez off when you're off doing the solo assassinating thing, but makes it much higher for getting anti-rez off when you're part of a melee train). If there's a concern about level 1 Executes still being too easy for particularly well geared players to get killing blows with, then maybe gatekeep the anti-rez effect by making it so you require 3 or 5 points before that effect will apply.
Personally, I think that since the Witch Hunter and Witch Elf have a mastery tree that tries to make them something of a melee train character (Confession/Carnage), making Frenzies/Executions apply anti-rez is better than applying it through stealth attacks, and either method is far better than tacking on a "destroy corpse" ability or whatever, that requires a lightly armored melee class to stop and fiddle around next to a slain player in the middle of a pitched battle.
If you catch yourself thinking that this is zomgOP, remind yourself of the opportunity cost of taking a WH/WE instead of one of the other MDPS classes. They NEED something good enough to make them actually worth taking.
If I were the devs, I would either make such an anti-rez ability be applied as a debuff when using any of the stealth based attacks (if you want to kinda pigeon-hole WE and WH into only being able to achieve that sort of power when actively being an assassin and making use of the stealth mechanic), or make it apply when a killing blow is achieved through an Execution or Frenzy (if you want to allow a little more flexibility, so a WE or WH could join the melee train and still provide this useful power as long as they're good at landing killing blows). Making it act as a whole separate ability, much less an ability that has a cooldown measured in minutes, means that each WE/WH has frankly negligible impact. The opportunity cost of having a stealther in your WB is still painfully high if all you're getting is maybe the ability to deny one rez every minute or three, especially given how, with detaunts being what they are, the ability for a stealther to actually go and solo someone, at best, results in a 1 for 1 trade, at worst a dead stealther behind enemy lines. Think about it; for every Witch Hunter you take, you're NOT getting a White Lion, or you're NOT getting a Slayer. Is that really worth it if all Witch Hunters can do is deny a rez every minute or three, and only then if they manage to kill someone and then awkwardly use a skill on a corpse?
No, if anti-rez is going to be a thing, it should be a thing that can be applied semi-frequently, and something that is integrated with the rest of their kit. Something that can be applied a couple times a minute as long as the stealther if good enough and has the opportunity to strike. And that "skill" should be measured by one's ability to either make use of stealth (not the easiest thing in a pitched battle because of current stealth detection rules and AoE being what it is, nevermind the raw AP cost of stealthing), or by last hitting with Executions/Frenzies (obviously gets easier the higher stacks you get, but those aren't the easiest thing to build during a melee train, so in effect, this creates a system that lowers the skill floor for getting anti-rez off when you're off doing the solo assassinating thing, but makes it much higher for getting anti-rez off when you're part of a melee train). If there's a concern about level 1 Executes still being too easy for particularly well geared players to get killing blows with, then maybe gatekeep the anti-rez effect by making it so you require 3 or 5 points before that effect will apply.
Personally, I think that since the Witch Hunter and Witch Elf have a mastery tree that tries to make them something of a melee train character (Confession/Carnage), making Frenzies/Executions apply anti-rez is better than applying it through stealth attacks, and either method is far better than tacking on a "destroy corpse" ability or whatever, that requires a lightly armored melee class to stop and fiddle around next to a slain player in the middle of a pitched battle.
If you catch yourself thinking that this is zomgOP, remind yourself of the opportunity cost of taking a WH/WE instead of one of the other MDPS classes. They NEED something good enough to make them actually worth taking.