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TimOh wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 6:15 pm
Data reference pictures, these were from the debate of order thread. These images are not mine, and the work done to gather data and compile it is awesome. Credit to whoever that was since I wasn't paying attention to the original posters name.
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I would just call what the swordmaster wears armour, no need to make the attempt to apply gendered stereotypes to what they wear. But this particular part of the discussion will probably be unproductive so we can agree to disagree I think, since the main focus is elsewhere.
My statement was not about making order dps less desired, making order tanks more desired or even making destro tanks less desired. I am wondering if there is a correlation between the large amount of aoe, especially in regards to destro mDPS as Mara(wearing a skirt eh?), choppas and mSH's exist in larger numbers as relative to the amount of slayers order has, and the amount of destro tanks that exist. Aoe is currently the king of rvr, destro has more aoe mdps capability. This leads to more melee trains for destro. The larger number of players playing these melee dps classes means that even in a casual setting like pug warbands there will be more melee trains. Sure there could be a larger population choosing certain destro classes based on appearances.
But my question is, if aoe dps especially in regards to mdps aoe was toned down, would it matter as much that there are more destro tanks? In addition, if mdps and or aoe dps, was toned down in general would there be more warband compositions that could be played other than aoe bomb warbands. Does having only one "competive" style of warband play, aoe bombing, and the higher number of viable aoe destro mdps contribute directly to the problem of order tank numbers.
When you look at the gear between the 2 realms, imo, destros looks 10x better in most of the cases. U also mentioned mara armor, the piece of armor you see on him, and most tanks, is called a tasset.
A tasset is a piece of armor designed to protect the upper thighs of the wearer. The dwarves looks longer because, well, they are small so it covers more of them lol.
Then u look at SM, this woman is wearing a dress. All I'm asking for is some pants with armor on them because when i ask the folks I play with, they say they dislike how the tanks look, that they dont look like tanks, they dislike the armor on them. Those are the reasons. Blork or chosen could likely underperform but people would still likely chose them over a BG (who also wears a dress. Odd..) because, physically, they look more appealing. I also honestly think that if WL wasnt in such a strong position right now, its population wouldn't be where it is.
Wanting pants on my sm It's not about making a gender stereotype (you did that on your own) I said SM, who can be a man or woman, should wear a suit of armor when going into a battle not a battle dress. That, for me and a few others, our tanks look weak and their gear looks meh and if those two aspects werent present we would be much more inclined to roll a tank which had a playstyle we liked.
This addresses my critique of how players view the in game models appearance. I didn't say anything about whether destro or order look cooler than the other. I said that acting as if what the Swordmaster wears is a dress, is, in my view immature. And that this subject is valued too highly as the sole reason for tank population disparities. If people disagree than that is fine. Additionally, I do think it is unfortunate that there are not more options for the SM appearance, or at least in some way to make the armour look more like this.
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However, my question about the correlation between mdps, aoe, and tank ratios was ignored. If the rvr scene was different, less aoe spam, would a disproportionate difference in the faction population of tanks be less of an issue?
p.s. I also edited the post because I stated that I thought this would be an unproductive area of discussion, which conflicted with my egging on about maras.
Yes sorry I meant to answer that. I'm replying in between tasks at work.
I've always joked with friends that reducing the aoe cap to 12 would be a be a good buff for classes like WE/WH/ASW because it would make bombing less appealing. That being said, if it was coded to basically hit the first 12 targets, the large number of tanks on destro side would be made even worse bc now you cant hit the SH/mara/choppa behind the tanks, only thr tanks. That being said I wasnt here before target cap was increased so maybe we would have more tanks.
I agree more appearance options is always welcome.
As long as all characters stay proportional. A Black Orc, Choppa and a Chosen are always going to be bigger than a human just as the human will always be taller than a dwarf. However i do think order tanks should have better looking armour. Ok a swordmaster in full plate will look ridiculous but decorative chain or half plate has to be better than wearing a dress (to be fair the blackguard looks a bit lame too). The feathers for knight though are just how they were original designed in the tabletop game so should stay. Stunties apart from a kicking need a refresh with better full dwarven plate armour with plenty of dwarven decoration etc. At least order can then look respectable when losing cities and destroying destro in forts.
OK, Swordmasters, as most elves, were a robe (at least in the game). Thats covered by scalemail on most armor pieces and a full breast plate covering the chest( leather armor on lower lever gear). If robes equal dresses, and therefore look lame, than you must take into account the vast majority of warrior cultures in recorded history.
