Witch Hunter / Elf Proposal

[jokerspsycho]

Changes were reverted back with not really any explanation.

Can't have a single target class good in large scale because the class is a small scale or roamer but the game is balanced around large scale

[drmordread]

Spoiler:

This is an idea to make the WH/WE useful/viable in grps and war bands, by giving both classes the ability to cast an AOE Heal.

I like the effort, but it doesn't supplement the shortcommings they have, in their primary purpose.(dps)

Benefit .........
This would greatly increase the longevity of all mdps classes when bypassing in numbers in both assaults on oil rooms and postern door attacks when main gates are being defended by funnel. This in turn would increase the amount of mdps bypassing to attack oil spawn points, and help taking keeps much faster and easier, as well as defending. And, even solo WH/WE players can then become useful as well.

The reason for bypasses being useless these days is because there are like 400ish ppl defending during prime time. A little bit of healing is hardly going to fix that. There is too much aoe from too many sources and you just get melted instantly.

Mechanics ..........
Attacks using the abilities Razor & Slice would also cast a minor AoE heal on all friendly targets in a 30 foot range, much the same way WP/DoK do. The same crit chance for an Aoe heal would also apply as it does to regular healers.

Best we could probably hope for, in that regard is something equivalent to Blorc's aura. And the weakness kind of is the exact same as close quarters. You need to not get oneshot by aoe, while trying to reach your target.

There is nothing wrong with WE/WH damage. At least as per the state of the game currently. Is it lower than what it was a few years ago, or back on live? Yes, very much lower. But that is the result of (a) taking away crit from all dps by removing crit talismans, by moving crit bonuses from armor to full set instead of 3pc, and by increasing the benefits of armor, toughness and damage prevention passive and rr abilities. As I remember one player in favor of this argued, "it is not fair that a tank can be killed by an mdps in 6 to 8 seconds.", and "short 5 to 10 second fights suck, and fights should be longer."
The WE/WH class thrived off of the higher crit chance (I used to get as high as +65 crit chance on my WE on live with tactics), and less mitigation. The WE opening burst was somewhat balanced out by the WH finisher.
Now, you could say that WE/WH dps is lacking compared to other mdps classes, yes, but that is only in 6 man play. For WB's, most dps is AoE specced, something the WE/WH do not really excel at, so they are primarily a single target mdps class, but add an AoE heal to one ability, and the WE/WH will actually have a place in a WB again, or at least get a better chance of an invite to a WB that is competitive.
So, the WE/WH damage is basically not a problem, it is even with any other class. It is how that damage is now applied that is the problem.
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Bypass is not useless at all even with 400 people defending. First off the majority of these people do not even wake up to defend posterns till outer is almost down. And even then, it is just a few groups. Mdps can bypass and with AoE heals climb up to walls for additional healing from outside.
Also, MDPS can take the oil spawn point on outer wall before the main mob of zerglings show up. And with the WE/WH doing AoE heals, a grp of WE's Maras and chopps /WH's SL/WL's can hold it long enough for their wb's to arrive and for their respective healers to single target heal from down below/outside.
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So, will a WE/WH AOE heal make them OP? Does not look like it, at all. But it will make them a class that can dps (pretty high by current game mechanics though that could be better too, but is a different post), and heal. By making them duel purpose, you actually giver them a purpose, because currently they have none.

[sighy]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

This is an idea to make the WH/WE useful/viable in grps and war bands, by giving both classes the ability to cast an AOE Heal.

I like the effort, but it doesn't supplement the shortcommings they have, in their primary purpose.(dps)

Benefit .........
This would greatly increase the longevity of all mdps classes when bypassing in numbers in both assaults on oil rooms and postern door attacks when main gates are being defended by funnel. This in turn would increase the amount of mdps bypassing to attack oil spawn points, and help taking keeps much faster and easier, as well as defending. And, even solo WH/WE players can then become useful as well.

The reason for bypasses being useless these days is because there are like 400ish ppl defending during prime time. A little bit of healing is hardly going to fix that. There is too much aoe from too many sources and you just get melted instantly.

Mechanics ..........
Attacks using the abilities Razor & Slice would also cast a minor AoE heal on all friendly targets in a 30 foot range, much the same way WP/DoK do. The same crit chance for an Aoe heal would also apply as it does to regular healers.

Best we could probably hope for, in that regard is something equivalent to Blorc's aura. And the weakness kind of is the exact same as close quarters. You need to not get oneshot by aoe, while trying to reach your target.

There is nothing wrong with WE/WH damage. At least as per the state of the game currently. Is it lower than what it was a few years ago, or back on live? Yes, very much lower. But that is the result of (a) taking away crit from all dps by removing crit talismans, by moving crit bonuses from armor to full set instead of 3pc, and by increasing the benefits of armor, toughness and damage prevention passive and rr abilities. As I remember one player in favor of this argued, "it is not fair that a tank can be killed by an mdps in 6 to 8 seconds.", and "short 5 to 10 second fights suck, and fights should be longer."
The WE/WH class thrived off of the higher crit chance (I used to get as high as +65 crit chance on my WE on live with tactics), and less mitigation. The WE opening burst was somewhat balanced out by the WH finisher.
Now, you could say that WE/WH dps is lacking compared to other mdps classes, yes, but that is only in 6 man play. For WB's, most dps is AoE specced, something the WE/WH do not really excel at, so they are primarily a single target mdps class, but add an AoE heal to one ability, and the WE/WH will actually have a place in a WB again, or at least get a better chance of an invite to a WB that is competitive.
So, the WE/WH damage is basically not a problem, it is even with any other class. It is how that damage is now applied that is the problem.
---------
Bypass is not useless at all even with 400 people defending. First off the majority of these people do not even wake up to defend posterns till outer is almost down. And even then, it is just a few groups. Mdps can bypass and with AoE heals climb up to walls for additional healing from outside.
Also, MDPS can take the oil spawn point on outer wall before the main mob of zerglings show up. And with the WE/WH doing AoE heals, a grp of WE's Maras and chopps /WH's SL/WL's can hold it long enough for their wb's to arrive and for their respective healers to single target heal from down below/outside.
---------

So, will a WE/WH AOE heal make them OP? Does not look like it, at all. But it will make them a class that can dps (pretty high by current game mechanics though that could be better too, but is a different post), and heal. By making them duel purpose, you actually giver them a purpose, because currently they have none.

Well the problem with WH/WE dps is, as you yourself aknowledged that they are lacking, in comparison to all their peers, in pretty much any setting. Blessing of the WE, in small scale is that most choppas are too lazy to go 2h spec. There is a long line of nerfs both direct and indirect to the pairing since what some would call their glory days, however that's not all too relevant to the here and now, as compared to how they stack up to their current peers. Before the Broad Severing nerf you could justify bringing more than one and even then you would only do it, because Mara didn't show up.
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Issue with Bypass is that you're out there, with all your squish relying on enemies not noticing you. (That stuff depends on who is defending at what time of day i guess.), not walking into several engi barels and other such stuff, but that's a topic, for another thread.
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While i don't dispute that an aoe heal would be useful and have them offer something they couldn't previously. I don't believe it fixes the most staggering issue, which holds them back from being viable.

[drmordread]

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While i don't dispute that an aoe heal would be useful and have them offer something they couldn't previously. I don't believe it fixes the most staggering issue, which holds them back from being viable.

OH I am not saying this will fix them and make them perfect. Not at all. The WH/WE still need a lot of help.Or maybe, the rest of the mdps classes need to be reined in a bit. And we don't need any more hybrids like the SW/SQ melee patch that made them into one more mdps class to compete with, (with some pretty OP abilities like the tankiness and cc abilities of the SQ.)

[jokerspsycho]

There is nothing wrong with WE/WH damage. ....Now, you could say that WE/WH dps is lacking compared to other mdps classes, yes, but that is only in 6 man play. For WB's, most dps is AoE specced, something the WE/WH do not really excel at, so they are primarily a single target mdps class

This is my issue. You say the damage is fine. Then u day they are lacking compared to other mdps in 6v6 (which is where people say the class belongs) then go on to say how their aoe spec sucks so they have to do single target damage, which is lacking. You see my point?

Also why does my dg hit for 50% of oyk? Because of my bullets? Thought those were a bit stronger than kisses to offset the fact kisses can proc up to 5 times in 10s since it's not on a ppm.

The class could use some damage added, not much, and both classes could use some QoL.

As it is, reflected by your statements, they are lacking against other melee dps who all have spots in city (save for ASW who is meta pick for 6v6). Even WL found a place in some WB where 0-1 wh is plenty and you are competing against a ASW for that spot.

I also dont think we should have a ranged spec in place of EW. If ew debuff applied before the damage and lasted for 15s I think it would help a lot. The other issue with EW is that u have to choose btwn getting 50% crit dmg and stun, or utility skills. So ew could work in small scale since you have guard and heals.

I think we should have one (1) ranged skill that builds accusation (and maybe procs a bullet) and bal should have 30ft range. Both sh and sw have a positional execute on a ranged skill so it can work.

[adamthelc]

Seems weird to me, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea. Anything can work if you balance it correctly.

An AoE seems pretty strong. I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea, but a group heal seems better or a target cap. RP and Zealots don't even have an AoE heal that can hit more than 6.

[drmordread]

Seems weird to me, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea. Anything can work if you balance it correctly.

An AoE seems pretty strong. I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea, but a group heal seems better or a target cap. RP and Zealots don't even have an AoE heal that can hit more than 6.

It would work with the same AoE restrictions as all other AoE, that only stands to reason.