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Vayra
Posts: 568

Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#21 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:16 am

Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:09 am
We haven’t changed skeletons , maggot or any mob abilities / HP . I think the issue is no one ever reported the items didn’t worked and was not necessary to kill Barakus and now you discover the 2 other miniboss . I don’t create content to make them skipable , otherwise i can just closes the portal to the miniboss and don’t bother rebuild their abilities . Now if those miniboss have bug , please add them to the BT , I already fixed some issue with them that tester reported to me this week .
No one reported it because the items weren't necessary on live. I don't think I ever did the mini-bosses more than once there on live.

As for not creating content to be skippable, that's just bad design. Don't railroad players into having to do things exactly the intended way or be unable to do it. If players want to ignore a mechanic and heal through it or damage through it, let them. I get the feeling you'd be the kind of DM that would force the players to follow the story you've planned out to a T, and very few players enjoy that kind of railroading. These minibosses give items to help you kill the boss, not prerequisites to kill it.
Vayra - Sorc
Forkrul - DoK
Kalyth - BG

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Grunbag
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Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#22 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:38 am

Vayra wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:16 am
Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:09 am
We haven’t changed skeletons , maggot or any mob abilities / HP . I think the issue is no one ever reported the items didn’t worked and was not necessary to kill Barakus and now you discover the 2 other miniboss . I don’t create content to make them skipable , otherwise i can just closes the portal to the miniboss and don’t bother rebuild their abilities . Now if those miniboss have bug , please add them to the BT , I already fixed some issue with them that tester reported to me this week .
No one reported it because the items weren't necessary on live. I don't think I ever did the mini-bosses more than once there on live.

As for not creating content to be skippable, that's just bad design. Don't railroad players into having to do things exactly the intended way or be unable to do it. If players want to ignore a mechanic and heal through it or damage through it, let them. I get the feeling you'd be the kind of DM that would force the players to follow the story you've planned out to a T, and very few players enjoy that kind of railroading. These minibosses give items to help you kill the boss, not prerequisites to kill it.
yes it was intended you used those items on live either and no one did cause it was broken too and you could tank an spank most boss.

when we decided to redo all dungeon, we decided to not make boss tank and spank and try to make all the mechanics used.
I've been through bugtracker and fixed most bug report for dungeon today.

After all this time you never asked yourself what was the purpose of the 2 miniboss no one did? or you simply knows they drop item to kill the boss but didn't report they were not used?
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Grunbag
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Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#23 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:41 am

Omegus wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:05 am
Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:09 am
We haven’t changed skeletons , maggot or any mob abilities / HP . I think the issue is no one ever reported the items didn’t worked and was not necessary to kill Barakus and now you discover the 2 other miniboss . I don’t create content to make them skipable , otherwise i can just closes the portal to the miniboss and don’t bother rebuild their abilities . Now if those miniboss have bug , please add them to the BT , I already fixed some issue with them that tester reported to me this week .
The hp thing and maggots locking down classes isn't a new thing sadly. Seems to be part of the intended design much like the skeleton mages being some of the deadliest mobs around. Getting debuffed without getting the gag self ability is such a common thing that I didnt even know that gag self existed until recently and I have the sentinel ring (the op reported the gag self bug in january on the tracker).

The other big bug with bb/be is that if the dungeon detects that a boss doesn't need to be spawned (lockouts and/or reforming a group) then it doesn't remove the barrier associated with that boss, causing the instance to soft lock :(.
i've been trough bug tracker and i removed some mage that were not suposed to be spawned, i fixed the ap drain in BB, equalized mob HP between BB and Crypt, fixed the cauldrons mechanics, increased a bit the time between 2 ssyrdian debuff application, and fixed chorek stun issue. Also, i made sure gag self will always remove the ap drain.
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Vayra
Posts: 568

Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#24 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:47 am

Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:38 am
Vayra wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:16 am
Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:09 am
We haven’t changed skeletons , maggot or any mob abilities / HP . I think the issue is no one ever reported the items didn’t worked and was not necessary to kill Barakus and now you discover the 2 other miniboss . I don’t create content to make them skipable , otherwise i can just closes the portal to the miniboss and don’t bother rebuild their abilities . Now if those miniboss have bug , please add them to the BT , I already fixed some issue with them that tester reported to me this week .
No one reported it because the items weren't necessary on live. I don't think I ever did the mini-bosses more than once there on live.

As for not creating content to be skippable, that's just bad design. Don't railroad players into having to do things exactly the intended way or be unable to do it. If players want to ignore a mechanic and heal through it or damage through it, let them. I get the feeling you'd be the kind of DM that would force the players to follow the story you've planned out to a T, and very few players enjoy that kind of railroading. These minibosses give items to help you kill the boss, not prerequisites to kill it.
yes it was intended you used those items on live either and no one did cause it was broken too and you could tank an spank most boss.

when we decided to redo all dungeon, we decided to not make boss tank and spank and try to make all the mechanics used.
I've been through bugtracker and fixed most bug report for dungeon today.

After all this time you never asked yourself what was the purpose of the 2 miniboss no one did? or you simply knows they drop item to kill the boss but didn't report they were not used?
I figured one was for the adds that spawn, but those were easily dealt with by rotating defensive morales == no reason to do. The other one was for the dmg mitigation which I think was reported a while back, which many groups still did even though it was bugged and not working. And even the damage increase could possibly be healed through and ignored with over-geared tanks/healers. That should be an option for players, IMO. A good example of this is one of the mid wing bosses in BS, you have the choice between letting the boss deal increasing amounts of damage, or reducing your own damage output, which makes for a nice array of choices depending on player desires and gear. You can go fast and heal through the damage if you're well-geared, or you can mitigate some damage but make the boss fight longer. Ignoring mechanics should make a boss harder, not outright impossible (effectively impossible without the right gear/setup is fine).
Vayra - Sorc
Forkrul - DoK
Kalyth - BG

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Vayra
Posts: 568

Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#25 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:48 am

Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:41 am
Omegus wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:05 am
Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:09 am
We haven’t changed skeletons , maggot or any mob abilities / HP . I think the issue is no one ever reported the items didn’t worked and was not necessary to kill Barakus and now you discover the 2 other miniboss . I don’t create content to make them skipable , otherwise i can just closes the portal to the miniboss and don’t bother rebuild their abilities . Now if those miniboss have bug , please add them to the BT , I already fixed some issue with them that tester reported to me this week .
The hp thing and maggots locking down classes isn't a new thing sadly. Seems to be part of the intended design much like the skeleton mages being some of the deadliest mobs around. Getting debuffed without getting the gag self ability is such a common thing that I didnt even know that gag self existed until recently and I have the sentinel ring (the op reported the gag self bug in january on the tracker).

The other big bug with bb/be is that if the dungeon detects that a boss doesn't need to be spawned (lockouts and/or reforming a group) then it doesn't remove the barrier associated with that boss, causing the instance to soft lock :(.
i've been trough bug tracker and i removed some mage that were not suposed to be spawned, i fixed the ap drain in BB, equalized mob HP between BB and Crypt, fixed the cauldrons mechanics, increased a bit the time between 2 ssyrdian debuff application, and fixed chorek stun issue. Also, i made sure gag self will always remove the ap drain.
That's good to hear, shame you couldn't reproduce the NRE I reported, I'll try to get some more info if it happens again.
Vayra - Sorc
Forkrul - DoK
Kalyth - BG

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Grunbag
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Posts: 1743

Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#26 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:51 am

Vayra wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:47 am
Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:38 am
Vayra wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:16 am


No one reported it because the items weren't necessary on live. I don't think I ever did the mini-bosses more than once there on live.

As for not creating content to be skippable, that's just bad design. Don't railroad players into having to do things exactly the intended way or be unable to do it. If players want to ignore a mechanic and heal through it or damage through it, let them. I get the feeling you'd be the kind of DM that would force the players to follow the story you've planned out to a T, and very few players enjoy that kind of railroading. These minibosses give items to help you kill the boss, not prerequisites to kill it.
yes it was intended you used those items on live either and no one did cause it was broken too and you could tank an spank most boss.

when we decided to redo all dungeon, we decided to not make boss tank and spank and try to make all the mechanics used.
I've been through bugtracker and fixed most bug report for dungeon today.

After all this time you never asked yourself what was the purpose of the 2 miniboss no one did? or you simply knows they drop item to kill the boss but didn't report they were not used?

I figured one was for the adds that spawn, but those were easily dealt with by rotating defensive morales == no reason to do. The other one was for the dmg mitigation which I think was reported a while back, which many groups still did even though it was bugged and not working. And even the damage increase could possibly be healed through and ignored with over-geared tanks/healers. That should be an option for players, IMO. A good example of this is one of the mid wing bosses in BS, you have the choice between letting the boss deal increasing amounts of damage, or reducing your own damage output, which makes for a nice array of choices depending on player desires and gear. You can go fast and heal through the damage if you're well-geared, or you can mitigate some damage but make the boss fight longer. Ignoring mechanics should make a boss harder, not outright impossible (effectively impossible without the right gear/setup is fine).
we don't want to make mechanic options around gear. Bring a well-geared player to rush a dungeon or make it faster or easier is not something we encourage.
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Hargrim
Developer
Posts: 2465

Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#27 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:53 am

Omegus wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:05 am
The other big bug with bb/be is that if the dungeon detects that a boss doesn't need to be spawned (lockouts and/or reforming a group) then it doesn't remove the barrier associated with that boss, causing the instance to soft lock :(.

If the dungeon detects that boss doesn't need to be spawned then it doesn't spawn the wall too, at least that's how it's supposed to work. Do you have something else to report after last patch?
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Vayra
Posts: 568

Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#28 » Mon May 11, 2020 8:09 am

Hargrim wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:53 am
Omegus wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:05 am
The other big bug with bb/be is that if the dungeon detects that a boss doesn't need to be spawned (lockouts and/or reforming a group) then it doesn't remove the barrier associated with that boss, causing the instance to soft lock :(.

If the dungeon detects that boss doesn't need to be spawned then it doesn't spawn the wall too, at least that's how it's supposed to work. Do you have something else to report after last patch?
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16748

Happened yesterday as well when a person who had killed Maggotfiend only spawned the instance.
Vayra - Sorc
Forkrul - DoK
Kalyth - BG

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Grunbag
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Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#29 » Mon May 11, 2020 8:13 am

Vayra wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 8:09 am
Hargrim wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:53 am
Omegus wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:05 am
The other big bug with bb/be is that if the dungeon detects that a boss doesn't need to be spawned (lockouts and/or reforming a group) then it doesn't remove the barrier associated with that boss, causing the instance to soft lock :(.

If the dungeon detects that boss doesn't need to be spawned then it doesn't spawn the wall too, at least that's how it's supposed to work. Do you have something else to report after last patch?
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16748

Happened yesterday as well when a person who had killed Maggotfiend only spawned the instance.
just tested and door still opened after zoning and coming back
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Vayra
Posts: 568

Re: BB/BE changes - more grind for less fun

Post#30 » Mon May 11, 2020 8:16 am

Grunbag wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 8:13 am
Vayra wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 8:09 am
Hargrim wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:53 am



If the dungeon detects that boss doesn't need to be spawned then it doesn't spawn the wall too, at least that's how it's supposed to work. Do you have something else to report after last patch?
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16748

Happened yesterday as well when a person who had killed Maggotfiend only spawned the instance.
just tested and door still opened after zoning and coming back
How long did you wait? Instance doesn't close immediately after leaving. This happened after coming back approximately 6 hours after killing the middle boss (we started clearing during the day while searching for healer and then gave up after over an hour of searching and came back in the evening). Should probably have specified timeframe in the report instead of just 'later'.
Vayra - Sorc
Forkrul - DoK
Kalyth - BG

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