Mara Proposal

[Stophy22]

Draining swipe core, Mutated aggressor 5 point savagery, tainted claw 9 pt brutality, make tainted claw 50% and then make tainted claw usable in brutality or savegery & brutality.

I dont think you need to change any other class. Marauders will no longer have a core 25% INC HD, but will have a 50% INC HD they don't have to waste a tactic slot on. So that's the tradeoff.

I think that was one of my suggestions, Move draining swipe to core and 9 point tained. I like the ability to use tainted in brutality too, I still in the interest of fairness you should change something for WL but I'm glad to see you agree!

No other dps needs to waste a tactic on a HD. Some tanks and healers do. I think its just bad design. If you want to even something out you could make the KoTBS HD aura incoming.

Ignore my initial statement lol I was wrong. but I agree with the initial statement. No other dps has to waste a tactic. That’s why I made this post in the first place

[saupreusse]

Well how i see it mara has the all the debuffs and toola one could want. Its just fair that you need a tactic slot to healdebuff more. You can simply add a squig or witch elf or dok for healdebuffs. You refer a few times that sw has a hdb but yeah squig has exactly the same. I dont think mara needs easier access to the hdb. Yout got the strongest armor debuff, a wounds debuff, and a toughness debuff iirc. Also you are a LOT tankier than any other dps class and you have one of the most useful self heal out of all dps classes.

[Grock]

It can be switched with Draining Swipe i guess, but giving an incoming heal debuff to a White Lion is a big no-no.

Also consider that giving 50% IHD to Mara will hurt Choppas viability and they are already suffering

[Stophy22]

Well how i see it mara has the all the debuffs and toola one could want. Its just fair that you need a tactic slot to healdebuff more. You can simply add a squig or witch elf or dok for healdebuffs. You refer a few times that sw has a hdb but yeah squig has exactly the same. I dont think mara needs easier access to the hdb. Yout got the strongest armor debuff, a wounds debuff, and a toughness debuff iirc. Also you are a LOT tankier than any other dps class and you have one of the most useful self heal out of all dps classes.

You're not wrong the class has a lot of debuffs, but those debuffs are irrelevant to the argument proposed. White Lions also have the strongest Armor debuff. Yes squigs have the same debuff, not inside squig armor. I went over this.

How is mara a lot tankier? Because of monstro tree? In initial statement I talked about how monstrorauder is a different beast than Savagery/Brut Rauder. Until later gear sets maras initiative is hard stuck at 160~ and has a tactic that increases his change to be crit by 10% when he crits.

Every other mdps and dps class has a healdebuff ability at 9-5pt tree. The goal of a dps is not to be tanky its to drop targets, hdb is vital for this.

Saying mara doesn't need hdb because he has other debuffs is a little close minded, that's like saying since shaman has auto detaunt tactic he doesn't need a detaunt. But you say mara has all the tools one could want, as a dps I'd very much like the ability to heal debuff without using my tactic slot, like every other dps. WL, Slayer, Shadow warrior don't need to bring a "WE or Dok" to get the job done. That was the entire reason of the post.

[Stophy22]

It can be switched with Draining Swipe i guess, but giving an incoming heal debuff to a White Lion is a big no-no.

Also consider that giving 50% IHD to Mara will hurt Choppas viability and they are already suffering

I would like to know how choppy viability is suffering if you could expand on this.

[adamthelc]

Well how i see it mara has the all the debuffs and toola one could want. Its just fair that you need a tactic slot to healdebuff more. You can simply add a squig or witch elf or dok for healdebuffs. You refer a few times that sw has a hdb but yeah squig has exactly the same. I dont think mara needs easier access to the hdb. Yout got the strongest armor debuff, a wounds debuff, and a toughness debuff iirc. Also you are a LOT tankier than any other dps class and you have one of the most useful self heal out of all dps classes.

You can avoid wasting a tactic on something someone else is bringing? Interesting.

The design is terrible. It doesn't need to be changed, but it should be because its a stupid design. They are penalized for having a HD people actually want because they have a core HD no one cares about. Pretty cool in T1, but at level 16 that goes out the window.

I think Ranged SWs deserve to do **** damage because they have no turret or Combustion mechanic. See how fun it is when everyone throws around their bad opinions? Why do Ranged SWs need to do good damage when you can just bring a BW or an Engineer?

[saupreusse]

I was talking about party play where you can bring another dps for healdebuffing and still have all tools to strip a target naked. I honestly just dont think mara deserves easier access to it without making one of his other debuffs harder to get.

[Stophy22]

I was talking about party play where you can bring another dps for healdebuffing and still have all tools to strip a target naked. I honestly just dont think mara deserves easier access to it without making one of his other debuffs harder to get.

I don’t mind this type of thinking but judging by how most of my propositions give the same tool to white lion, a class preforming much better than marauder right now, I thought it was fine.

Bg and chosen also have wounds debuff if you want to talk about group play, so Mara can ditch his wounds debuff and just let Bg or chosen handle it, wave of terror is hitting pretty hard right now and is probably a better choice than stacking up on wounds debuffs, since they don’t stack.

Mara underperforms incredibly compared to to other mdps. He doesn’t have a healdebuff without tactic use, and he doesn’t have burst damage comparable to his mirrors. On top of that he has to switch around stances to achieve what others can do free of that.

It sort of feels that you dislike the proposition simply because it’s about marauder. Every other dps gets healdebuffs without tactics, why is it a bad idea to give him one, and possibly white lion one too who is also missing his?

Edit: also you mention his other debuffs are too easy to get. Thunderous blow is 13pt left tree and his only other debuff is armor debuff 9point left tree. I guess you could move armor debuff to 13point too but why? White lion is 9 point as well.

[saupreusse]

I was talking about party play where you can bring another dps for healdebuffing and still have all tools to strip a target naked. I honestly just dont think mara deserves easier access to it without making one of his other debuffs harder to get.

I don’t mind this type of thinking but judging by how most of my propositions give the same tool to white lion, a class preforming much better than marauder right now, I thought it was fine.

Bg and chosen also have wounds debuff if you want to talk about group play, so Mara can ditch his wounds debuff and just let Bg or chosen handle it, wave of terror is hitting pretty hard right now and is probably a better choice than stacking up on wounds debuffs, since they don’t stack.

Mara underperforms incredibly compared to to other mdps. He doesn’t have a healdebuff without tactic use, and he doesn’t have burst damage comparable to his mirrors. On top of that he has to switch around stances to achieve what others can do free of that.

It sort of feels that you dislike the proposition simply because it’s about marauder. Every other dps gets healdebuffs without tactics, why is it a bad idea to give him one, and possibly white lion one too who is also missing his?

Edit: also you mention his other debuffs are too easy to get. Thunderous blow is 13pt left tree and his only other debuff is armor debuff 9point left tree. I guess you could move armor debuff to 13point too but why? White lion is 9 point as well.

Im also against giving wl more tools. Its not a faction balance thing i simply believe both classes are in a good spot where they are its just that.
What i mean by saying easy access is that you can easily pick up all your debuffs in the left tree while still being able to get all the gud stuff from middle tree. If you choose to build into left tree ou will also get to the hdb tactic anyway. Im simply against giving mara more tools in this regard without him losing anything else. I would be fine if you swapped the hdbf tactic and made it a wounds debuff tactic instead. And make the hdb the new 13point ability in this tree.

[Sofong]

mara problems: lack of bursts/lack of kd in st spec/low mobility/heal debuff requires a tactic slot. imo TB change back to live version will solve half of the problems. deadly clutch is ok-ish at its current state since it also drain half the heals.