WH/WE balance suggestion - AOE dmg reduction tactic

[Deifact]

Kinda off topic but does incognito disable the character collision like when out of combat? I don't think it does. That'd be useful so that when hidden it's easier to get through to a vulnerable target. I guess it could potentially be exploited (whole WB of WH to get through a keep?!) but I doubt that'd ever happen in reality.

[Alfa1986]

in order to make it competitive in the warband, you need to do one simple thing, namely, to increase the number of targets from the tactics aoe "broad severing" for the "slice" from 2 to 24 and to increase the radius of action "slice". otherwise it’s just some kind of laugh, for some reason BW can give out aoe 1k DPS * 24 targets in sec, but WE can’t because "he is so very strong class"? WE a strong class? Yes, it is absolutely useless in the RVR and it is played only for fun, in the gank groups. there is no armor, no resist, class which intended as killer of healers is not to be able kill any normal exp healer even 1 on 1.

24 targets is maybe too much, 9 targets with equiped tactic sounds reasonable.

Also, could maybe make or add one more requirement if u want to do AoE, for example, for each combo point u have, u hit 1 additional target. Something like this, would be a change which require play along with ClassMechanic and its not easy boost, while also force player to decide when he wants to keep AoEing more targets or use finishers and lose potential to do additional AoE.

option 1:
- Sweeping Razor / Broad Severing : RazorStrike/Slice will now also hits up to 3 additional enemies within 25feet of your target. Additional, you can hit one more target for each combo point you have. (removing 10% dmg nerf in comparisson to current one), (1+3+5 = 9 max total targets)

option 2:
- Sweeping Razor / Broad Severing : RazorStrike/Slice become ability that hits upto 4 targets in 90degree arc infront, but deals 10% less damage. (something similar to Aza proposal). Additional, you can hit one more target for each combo point you have. (4 + 5 = 9 max total targets)

option 3:
- Trial By Pain / Ruthless Assault - becomes AoE, and hits 1/2 more target in 30ft range for each ComboPoint spent (6/12 max total targets)

option 4:
- Blessed Bullets of Cleansing - make it possible to drain AP from every target hitted and give stolen AP to group. (would require some number checks if it would be not too strong)

But anyway, no matter what we will proposal or think off, current devs stand is that this class should not be an AoE class so very unlikely it will get any AoE love.

If ppl think, no AoE on Stealth class, then could also add to AoE tactic You lose ability to use Incognito/ShadowProwler but still could use Elixir of Shadows or Sanctified Oil.

this is not particularly important since for melee it is very rare u could take more than 5-10 targets, in the difference engineers or magus who can cover their aoe much more targets.

Or that way: the first 5 targets a reduction in DPS by 10% (as in the standard description), the remaining 4 each minus 10%, i.e. 6 -20%, 7 -30%, 8 - 40%, 9 - 50%.

[sighy]

in order to make it competitive in the warband, you need to do one simple thing, namely, to increase the number of targets from the tactics aoe "broad severing" for the "slice" from 2 to 24 and to increase the radius of action "slice". otherwise it’s just some kind of laugh, for some reason BW can give out aoe 1k DPS * 24 targets in sec, but WE can’t because "he is so very strong class"? WE a strong class? Yes, it is absolutely useless in the RVR and it is played only for fun, in the gank groups. there is no armor, no resist, class which intended as killer of healers is not to be able kill any normal exp healer even 1 on 1.

24 targets is maybe too much, 9 targets with equiped tactic sounds reasonable.

Also, could maybe make or add one more requirement if u want to do AoE, for example, for each combo point u have, u hit 1 additional target. Something like this, would be a change which require play along with ClassMechanic and its not easy boost, while also force player to decide when he wants to keep AoEing more targets or use finishers and lose potential to do additional AoE.

option 1:
- Sweeping Razor / Broad Severing : RazorStrike/Slice will now also hits up to 3 additional enemies within 25feet of your target. Additional, you can hit one more target for each combo point you have. (removing 10% dmg nerf in comparisson to current one), (1+3+5 = 9 max total targets)

option 2:
- Sweeping Razor / Broad Severing : RazorStrike/Slice become ability that hits upto 4 targets in 90degree arc infront, but deals 10% less damage. (something similar to Aza proposal). Additional, you can hit one more target for each combo point you have. (4 + 5 = 9 max total targets)

option 3:
- Trial By Pain / Ruthless Assault - becomes AoE, and hits 1/2 more target in 30ft range for each ComboPoint spent (6/12 max total targets)

option 4:
- Blessed Bullets of Cleansing - make it possible to drain AP from every target hitted and give stolen AP to group. (would require some number checks if it would be not too strong)

But anyway, no matter what we will proposal or think off, current devs stand is that this class should not be an AoE class so very unlikely it will get any AoE love.

If ppl think, no AoE on Stealth class, then could also add to AoE tactic You lose ability to use Incognito/ShadowProwler but still could use Elixir of Shadows or Sanctified Oil.

I really like this, but it deserves it's own thread so it's not lost i think.

[Sulorie]

Why you want to turn both classes into frontline aoe spammers?
You will never become champ without aoe spec, because max dmg matters but getting most kills by assiting on the enemy backline is what they are good at.
Just had a city and it was very nice to play. ;^)
Your experience may vary.

[Melkoroth]

in order to make it competitive in the warband, you need to do one simple thing, namely, to increase the number of targets from the tactics aoe "broad severing" for the "slice" from 2 to 24 and to increase the radius of action "slice". otherwise it’s just some kind of laugh, for some reason BW can give out aoe 1k DPS * 24 targets in sec, but WE can’t because "he is so very strong class"? WE a strong class? Yes, it is absolutely useless in the RVR and it is played only for fun, in the gank groups. there is no armor, no resist, class which intended as killer of healers is not to be able kill any normal exp healer even 1 on 1.

24 targets is maybe too much, 9 targets with equiped tactic sounds reasonable.

Also, could maybe make or add one more requirement if u want to do AoE, for example, for each combo point u have, u hit 1 additional target. Something like this, would be a change which require play along with ClassMechanic and its not easy boost, while also force player to decide when he wants to keep AoEing more targets or use finishers and lose potential to do additional AoE.

option 1:
- Sweeping Razor / Broad Severing : RazorStrike/Slice will now also hits up to 3 additional enemies within 25feet of your target. Additional, you can hit one more target for each combo point you have. (removing 10% dmg nerf in comparisson to current one), (1+3+5 = 9 max total targets)

option 2:
- Sweeping Razor / Broad Severing : RazorStrike/Slice become ability that hits upto 4 targets in 90degree arc infront, but deals 10% less damage. (something similar to Aza proposal). Additional, you can hit one more target for each combo point you have. (4 + 5 = 9 max total targets)

option 3:
- Trial By Pain / Ruthless Assault - becomes AoE, and hits 1/2 more target in 30ft range for each ComboPoint spent (6/12 max total targets)

option 4:
- Blessed Bullets of Cleansing - make it possible to drain AP from every target hitted and give stolen AP to group. (would require some number checks if it would be not too strong)

But anyway, no matter what we will proposal or think off, current devs stand is that this class should not be an AoE class so very unlikely it will get any AoE love.

If ppl think, no AoE on Stealth class, then could also add to AoE tactic You lose ability to use Incognito/ShadowProwler but still could use Elixir of Shadows or Sanctified Oil.

I like this. Maybe it's a good idea to post this as a separate thread. As someone said, now that champs in city depend on damage we are pretty much out of it unless every other melee DPS sucks badly. If devs don't want us to be AoE then the other solution is to up the single target damage but sadly we are not competitive nowadays.

Awesome job nerfing WH/WE's AoE while buffing slayer/marauder's by the way >.<

[Duukar]

Kinda off topic but does incognito disable the character collision like when out of combat? I don't think it does. That'd be useful so that when hidden it's easier to get through to a vulnerable target. I guess it could potentially be exploited (whole WB of WH to get through a keep?!) but I doubt that'd ever happen in reality.

Stealthing collision doesnt matter in WB fights.. If you are close enough to bump into someone you WILL get pulled and aoe popped out of stealth by a Choppa.. end of.

[Sulorie]

Kinda off topic but does incognito disable the character collision like when out of combat? I don't think it does. That'd be useful so that when hidden it's easier to get through to a vulnerable target. I guess it could potentially be exploited (whole WB of WH to get through a keep?!) but I doubt that'd ever happen in reality.

Stealthing collision doesnt matter in WB fights.. If you are close enough to bump into someone you WILL get pulled and aoe popped out of stealth by a Choppa.. end of.

Enemies have no friendly collision, when it stealth, so they don't know, that someone is there.

[Duukar]

Why you want to turn both classes into frontline aoe spammers?
You will never become champ without aoe spec, because max dmg matters but getting most kills by assiting on the enemy backline is what they are good at.
Just had a city and it was very nice to play. ;^)
Your experience may vary.

No. This proposal wasnt to make WH or WE frontline aoe spammers. This was to help them move through and around and even in the proximity of the very high and widespread aoe damage that makes even existing in the area very dangerous for WHs and WE.

Half the time when im just trying to move around the fight in stealth i find myself rapidly pulled in and dead from miles away. A tactic to improve survivability in this environment is the point. none of the defensive CDs work on aoe at all.. Its almost impossible to avoid and its truly deadly within seconds.