Recent Topics

Ads

[Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use

Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
doxifera
Posts: 122

[Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#1 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:40 pm

In mass battles, all you have to do for Magus is resummon the demon on cd. This is not a positioning problem, since all skirmishes occur in a mile radius. Since Magus and Engi do not have tactics for battle without a pet, this problem concerns them mainly. Several priority solutions are proposed:
1. Reduce the damage received for pets from AOE abilities by 90% (up to 10%). - If someone wants to kill the pet for him it will not be difficult with the help of the Single Target skills, the damage received is reduced only for AOE abilities . (Also suitable for WL and CH as an alternative to Loner tactics).
2. Add Magus and Engi tactics for Loners, who will give nothing but 8 stacks of the buff of the pet (unholy umpowerment/improvised upgrade). - We will lose the skills of pets and their damage, but at least we will stay with buffs from them.
3. Reduce the cost of calling the pet to 0 action points. - This will not solve the problem of resummon on cd, but at least it will leave an of action points, since because of the resummon you still remain without action points.

It’s not interesting to play when all you have to do is resummon the pet every 5 seconds (which dies instantly) and in the interval between it there will be action points at zero. And its not a positioning problem, because there is only one position in fort and city - mele range.

Ads
Dabush
Posts: 16

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#2 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:12 pm

Yeah I think it’s pretty ridiculous some pets have aoe reductions and others don’t. Magus and Engi get hated on pretty hard, making their turrets (which are a GCD) not insta die shouldn’t be asking too much...

Starx
Posts: 336

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#3 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:16 pm

I think people put themselves in this box of thinking when it comes to engineer/magus that the pet buffs are what make the class and to fix the class the pets have to be buffed to withstand the AoE damage we are seeing, and exemplified in city.

But the stationary summons these classes had were originally just flavor tbh. There was no buff provided, the damage was mostly inconsequential and players just used them for an ele/armor debuff basically, and a vessel for their AoE KD.

When the CC apocalypse happened, magus and engineer were absolutely crushed as a class. They relied more on their CC than any other class to be effective and now with immunities they got hit REAL HARD. It wasn't until the game went down the drain and we got a balance pass these classes got their damage buff by standing next to their summons. Just a part of the incredibly lazy game design choices that were thrown out at the end of the games lifespan like we saw with WE getting ranged finishers etc...

Then on this server we saw a real attempt to make the whole stand close to your summon mechanic actually interesting, and honestly it succeeded mostly at least in terms of making the mechanics interesting.

The damage buff needs to go. If the devs here can go though every single marauder ability and redo all the coefficients then the same treatment can be done for magus/engineer. Go through every ability and bring them up to par (go through the pet abilities too some are just sad), and remove the damage buff from the pets. Too much of this classes power is coming from them, its BAD design plain and simple.

Keep the utility on them, I like the range, the mobile dot play, and the tank/AoE radius aspects all the pets provide. Give each pet different stats based on what they are used for. The ranged summon should be squishy, the medium and close range should be a lot more tanky considering their application. Give some AoE reduction. And finally increase the cooldown on these pets, so there is actual risk/reward going on and people are encouraged to actually target them if they want.

User avatar
ChicagoJoe
Posts: 254

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#4 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:39 pm

Increasing normal damage and removing pet damage buff would GREATLY improve viability of classes.

Need some recognition from dev team that they neutered these classes and gave their extra balls to melee squig and others.
primary IB 8X, EN8X, WP7X, SL7X, KOTBS6X, and a bunch of under rr60 toons on order and destro with other classes.

Starx
Posts: 336

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#5 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:41 pm

ChicagoJoe wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:39 pm Increasing normal damage and removing pet damage buff would GREATLY improve viability of classes.

Need some recognition from dev team that they neutered these classes and gave their extra balls to melee squig and others.
Engineer/Magus weren't neutered by the devs here. That was live. They were buffed pretty substantially here. And they still are the state you see now which I think speaks volumes to how bad they were for the history of this game.

Unfortunately the person responsible for all the changes to eng/magus is gone, and we are basically just waiting on someone else to champion the classes. As far as I know the team here is pretty decentralized and there isn't like a taskforce looking into balance, if no one really cares about eng/magus we might not ever get anything.
Spoiler:
Here's to secrets rerolling engineer :pensive:

User avatar
ChicagoJoe
Posts: 254

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#6 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:51 pm

The developer buff to mdps here was a nerf to some rdps to the point that there is an extreme imbalance in classes. Morale damage that requires concentration vs instant damage and ability to use other damaging abilities is an example. choppa pull is so much better than magnet or rift. CC isn’t noticeable.
primary IB 8X, EN8X, WP7X, SL7X, KOTBS6X, and a bunch of under rr60 toons on order and destro with other classes.

Klikous
Posts: 5

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#7 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:14 pm

+1 from me, it's incredibly frustrating to have most of my damage tied to a sitting duck which dies not from targetted damage, but as a biprocess of people spamming aoe stuff. Not like magus / engi is going to become top class for any play after this change.

Panodil
Posts: 337

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#8 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:17 pm

Reduced aoe damage on pet would be a good change.
Or revert changes so the pets can get grouphealed again.
Loosing pet as magus means you lose around 50-55% of your damage, 40% from buff and pet does around 15% of my total ST damage as Magus. With pet dying in a stray aoe makes class hard to justify in a group.
Panodil WP
Panodill DoK
Panodilz Zealot
Panodilr Runepriest
Run Shaman
Panage Archmage

Ads
User avatar
avalus
Posts: 36

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#9 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:00 pm

Starx wrote: Go through every ability and bring them up to par (go through the pet abilities too some are just sad), and remove the damage buff from the pets. Too much of this classes power is coming from them, its BAD design plain and simple.

Keep the utility on them, I like the range, the mobile dot play, and the tank/AoE radius aspects all the pets provide. Give each pet different stats based on what they are used for. The ranged summon should be squishy, the medium and close range should be a lot more tanky considering their application. Give some AoE reduction. And finally increase the cooldown on these pets, so there is actual risk/reward going on and people are encouraged to actually target them if they want.

Excellent suggestions, these would tremendously enchance Magus/Engie gameplay.

The only thing that's already there is the stat scaling, it is simply neutered by the AoE damage the pets receive and makes little to no difference except when people focus to killing it with ST abilities.

Enraptured Doomweaver Image Chaos Sorcerer of 𝕋̳̠ͫ𝕫̫͕̥̞͂̃𝕖̴̡̠̮͙̈̏𝕖̻̭͉ͥ̉̐̀̈́𝕟̘͛͒̀̓͊ͨ𝕥̮̦̦̾̄͟𝕔̖͓̂𝕙̤ | RR83 |

Spoiler:
Retired characters :

Notsure | Carnal
Hiasakite | Heosphoros

User avatar
Teefz
Posts: 98

Re: [Pet classes] Magus / Engi (WL/SH)

Post#10 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:54 pm

Panodil wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:17 pm Reduced aoe damage on pet would be a good change.
Or revert changes so the pets can get grouphealed again.
Loosing pet as magus means you lose around 50-55% of your damage, 40% from buff and pet does around 15% of my total ST damage as Magus. With pet dying in a stray aoe makes class hard to justify in a group.
Agree. IMO there is two ways of doing this.

A: Pets cannot be hit by any AOE - no PBAoE, no aoe dots, no mist/napalm, no phosphorous shells/tzeentch's firestorm/pit of shades/rain of fire etc.
or
B: Make pets benefit from group heals again, but let them be hit by AOE. Since there is no way other than manually targeting the pet to heal - which 1 out of 100 healers (maybe) actually manages to do in orvr/scs. But let's be honest, they are more important targets to heal.

Any one of the 2 options above would be an improvement for all pet classes, instead of this current blanket nerf, which has been thoroughly "tested" the past 1-2 years.

There could also be one last option:

C: Revert the nerf to pets - Make them benefit from group buffs, group heals etc.

But I'm guessing hell will freeze over before that happens, since the people with the big brain in charge of 'balance' knows the pets are solely responsible for power creep and the time to kill being ridiciously fast. :roll:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests