Remove LOS from scenario/BO flags

[Vayra]

The flags in scenarios and on BOs break LoS when someone runs behind them. This makes no sense, they are not big enough to actually obscure the target and so shouldn't block LoS. The current implementation makes it extra punishing to play ranged in scenarios as anyone on a flag can simply stand next to it and take a step to break any cast time spell.

This is made even more punishing because spells now check LoS during cast as well, not just at the start and end. So we can get spells interrupted midway through by a glorified stick in the ground because someone moved past it, not even standing there, just passing behind it.

Please change this, it's like a fat cartoon character hiding behind a lightpost and expecting to be unseen. . .
Additionally, please only check LoS at beginning and end of cast, a split second of losing LoS should not cancel a spell entirely.

[Thifall]

Actually, I would do the opposite, and make guild banners break LOS... maybe that way people will start using them more often

[admanb]

Actually, I would do the opposite, and make guild banners break LOS... maybe that way people will start using them more often

You could get the same effect by deleting all ranged classes and non-instant cast heals from the game.

[Martok]

The flags in scenarios and on BOs break LoS when someone runs behind them.

This may be annoying but it is never going to be changed.

[EsthelielSunfury]

This is actually infuriating and makes no sense at all, one of the first things I noticed in scenarios. Maybe there's a reason behind it being a deeper problem, otherwise I really see no logic in it.

[Amdus]

This is actually infuriating and makes no sense at all, one of the first things I noticed in scenarios. Maybe there's a reason behind it being a deeper problem, otherwise I really see no logic in it.

What makes no sense at all is that projectiles go through terrain irregularities, rocks and in some cases walls but OP is complaining about a max of 5 poles per scenario.

[Vayra]

This is actually infuriating and makes no sense at all, one of the first things I noticed in scenarios. Maybe there's a reason behind it being a deeper problem, otherwise I really see no logic in it.

What makes no sense at all is that projectiles go through terrain irregularities, rocks and in some cases walls but OP is complaining about a max of 5 poles per scenario.

If projectiles go through surfaces they shouldn't, you should post a bug report with evidence so the devs can fix it. What I'm suggesting here is removing a block on LoS that makes no sense since the flags are so thin that they don't block LoS in any meaningful way except for the game deciding that if the center of your model is behind it you're out of LoS, never mind the other 90% of your body still clearly visible.

[admanb]

Sounds like a pug issue. I can't recall to have heard of any group - or halfway decent duo (or solo queuer) for that matter - that was stopped (or even mildly annoyed) by the evil flag poles. Not to mention that flags have been LoS blockers since, I think, early to mid T2? Probably even back in good ol' T1 times.

But well, if it isn't gear, RR, premades or realm 'imbalance', dev realm bias or hax, it gotta be the evil poles that ruin it all.

A truly heroic effort to turn “weird LOS quirk” into a PUG vs premade argument. Absolutely incredible.

[avalus]

Sounds like a pug issue. I can't recall to have heard of any group - or halfway decent duo (or solo queuer) for that matter - that was stopped (or even mildly annoyed) by the evil flag poles. Not to mention that flags have been LoS blockers since, I think, early to mid T2? Probably even back in good ol' T1 times.

But well, if it isn't gear, RR, premades or realm 'imbalance', dev realm bias or hax, it gotta be the evil poles that ruin it all.

A truly heroic effort to turn “weird LOS quirk” into a PUG vs premade argument. Absolutely incredible.

'Weird LoS quirk' - tell me, how often did you try to cast that spell on your flagpole humping target before the meleetrain got to you?
This isn't about flagpoles and LoS, but rather about the consequences of tunnelvision and lack of coordination on a fundamental level.

Please, papercraft a single scenario in which the flagpole LoS makes or breaks the game and cannot be dealt with by either swapping targets or simply coordinating with the other players in the scenario?
Let me spell it out: you don't have to play in a premade to not be a <pug>. The very moment you join a scenario you do in fact join a (scenario) group. That's usually between one and eleven, sometimes even up to twenty-three other people you can coordinate with; e.g.: tanks that can punt your target away from the evil flagpole, mdps that can train your target behind the evil flagpole, ...

Edit: Doesn't it raise questions, that the flagpole LoS survived for the past 5yrs? Strange isn't it, that no one before took any meaningful issue with it.

Okay, all these situations are from a Havoc Magus experience :

Gates of Ekrund scenario :
You're standing with your pet on one of the stone dwarf statue's head near middle flag
You clear up second floor, no one left there to kill, no one at flag floor coming up to it, only melees fighting around the flag
You start your rotation with 2-3s cast skills, enemy (ofc it's natural movement in melee so it's not done on purpose) just passes behind the 5px flagpole, your cast is broken
And again, and again
-> You're just standing there useless waiting for another target to come in range instead of assisting your teammates

Reikland Hills scenario :
You guard solo one of the exterior flags while main forces fight for the middle/other side flag, standing uphill or on the exit of the one-way ramp leading to the flag with your pet
A dude comes over to retake the flag, 1 proper rotation: he's a goner (element of surprise, tactic, etc.)
He comes back to the same flag, knows you're around, spots you (or not) and just stands there recapping while strafing left & right so you don't ever get to cast any 1s+ skill on him
-> you have to go hug him like an idiot and expose yourself, he still strafes around the flagpole while keeping you behind it (eventhough you're at like 10ft from him) until his mates come over and bash your skull in

Maw of Madness Ranked scenario :
Being a Havoc Magus in ranked is already not easy, but when you try to take advantage of that tiny window of freedom you get without getting pressured like hell to get a rotation off and the target starts strafing to break LoS with the flag and your cast keeps breaking (or again, natural melee movement around the flag, considered it's right in the middle of the fighting ground), even critical ones like a Disarm or a punt, yeah awesome

And I could gather several other instances.

In RvR, I agree that it's almost a non-issue considering you're seldom alone
But (way?) more than a half of players joining Scenarios are not in premades, and in a PuG environment where sometimes (or should I say rather often) people have trouble switching groups to not have 2 retarded groups with 3 heals in 1 and 3 tanks in another and none in the other one, or use their guard, or give you the right Zealot Mark (at least, not one that's not stacking with your main stat potion...), assist on a target, etc. you want people to magically coordinate at a telepathic level to go wreck that dude that's breaking your LoS with the flagpole ?..
And in a Ranked 6v6 environment, considering how tight the match-ups/fights sometimes are, it actually can "make or break the game" because if you need to apply pressure to that one target at that precise moment, you just can't randomly swap to another because the flagpole is in your way, it makes no sense


As for :

What makes no sense at all is that projectiles go through terrain irregularities, rocks and in some cases walls but OP is complaining about a max of 5 poles per scenario.

Nice one mate, it's basically like someone saying to a mayor:
"There are potholes on that road, would it be possible to look into it and eventually fix them ?"
and the mayor replying:
"Yeah, well there are even bigger ones further up on that road so deal with those."

Eventhough, I agree with what you said, it's just funny, as if this issue did not concern both sides equally anyway.


I also think that LoS breaking has always been, is and should be a tactical move, it's just that IMO, there's a huge difference between a wooden plank, a tree or a stone wall and a 4cm flagpole that breaks not only physical range casts with arrows (which would be arguably coherent) but also magical ones

Anyway, it probably won't even be looked into considering how minor of a change it is compared to the amount of time it would take to do it (as Martok said), it's just that I don't get why people are trying to act like it is non-existant.

[admanb]

I’m ****’ dying over here. Please don’t stop — this is the funniest thing I’ve read in days.