Remove LOS from scenario/BO flags

[Arbich]

I think we all know what you are talking about. From a logical standpoint you are correct, it makes no sense.
But its used as a tactic by melee dps to break LoS. You know when its happening and why. Its nothing unpredictable. From a balance viewpoint it should stay as it is.

[Vayra]

I think we all know what you are talking about. From a logical standpoint you are correct, it makes no sense.
But its used as a tactic by melee dps to break LoS. You know when its happening and why. Its nothing unpredictable. From a balance viewpoint it should stay as it is.

I can see the balance argument, but I honestly don't think melee need much help from mechanics like this in that department. The game is pretty well geared in favor of melee as it is, especially in scenarios. I don't think removing this trick would be a noticeable shift in balance in favor of ranged, but it would make ranged a lot less clunky to play.

I also wouldn't mind it as much if breaking LoS for a split second wouldn't cancel casting a spell. Fair enough if they stand behind it when I try to start casting or finish casting a spell, but if they simply pass behind it while I'm casting it definitely shouldn't cancel.

[Amdus]

I see you like putting words in my mouth, please show me exactly where I call people stupid for using game mechanics to their advantage (hint: you won't find it because I didn't).

Hint: You didn't say it, you hinted it.

Most MMOs don't cancel casts mid-cast if someone temporarily goes out of LoS. And this game didn't either on live, FYI. As for why flagpoles should be different from see-through fences? They shouldn't. If you can see through it you should have LoS on the target. Seems obvious no? You can see it it's in your Line of Sight.

Yes they do, most MMO cancel casts if you go out of LoS. Some don't cancel it if you get behind an obstacle, but out of LoS all of them cancel if mid cast. What you remember from retail unless you got proof, holds no meaning.

FF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5uL2-lGGs4
WoW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l2emDMDp1E

You can "see" a lot of stuff, it doesn't mean that you should be able to ignore objects in the way, and most games especially old ones with old engines base this on the LENGTH of the object in question.

Is it taller than your character? Yes, then LoS Obstacle.
Is below the torso of your character? No, then in LoS.

I would like to refer you to the name of this subforum: Suggestions & Feedback. The entire point of this subforum is to give feedback for what we as players want changed. This post is me asking for a change to something I find to be unreasonable. Don't like my suggestion? Argue in good faith against it. All your posts so far have been made with bad faith arguments and/or attacking me as a person rather than my suggestion for a change. This last quote is an excellent example. You use my wording (for a language I speak and write as a 3rd language no less) to insinuate that I think the devs have to do what I want them to when what I am doing is asking[\b] them to change something. Not demanding, not expecting, asking.

Amazing projection out there, that's how you cope when you get confronted? With evasives? I think that you should take your time to read everything you have said until this point, and start to acknowledge who started attacking who, who was condescending and who is not bringing absolutely anything to the current discussion.

I am arguing in good faith against and proving why you're wrong, despite this you decide to tunnel vision only what you believe and ignore anything that's being said to you, when you are confronted you pull a fallacy or refuse to debate because you can't defend your argument with conviction, which may be an indicative of how flawed is it. No, I don't like your suggestion that's why I'm arguing with you, because it doesn't look like a suggestion to me, it looks like a demand product of a rage moment you had when someone was hiding behind a pole and you couldn't kill it. I attack the way you present your suggestions because they are very subtle demands hidden as suggestions, that are entirely subjective, and based on what's more beneficial for you. And in every post you make, you contradict yourself even more. What's next? That order has this or that? That this game punishes casters? Come on..

And to end this I haven't asked you anything about your language, how many languages you speak or what's your favorite food. And it comes without saying that I care very little about your private life, get over yourself.

I am not going to bother responding to any more of your posts unless you start making good faith arguments against (or for) my proposal.

Likewise, I won't waste my time arguing with a brick that doesn't want to see further than his own nose.

[Amdus]

Here's an example of what I'm asking to change. Is this warrior priest really out of my sight (apart from the big orc in the way)?



Literally no part of his model is covered by the pole, yet he's out of LoS according to the game. That's what I want to change.

So you're french kissing the evil flag pole, and you want the devs to make the flag pole an ethereal object so you can attack that dwarf, instead of walking a bit to either side and attack it.

Honestly, I'm done.

[wargrimnir]

Most MMOs don't cancel casts mid-cast if someone temporarily goes out of LoS. And this game didn't either on live, FYI. As for why flagpoles should be different from see-through fences? They shouldn't. If you can see through it you should have LoS on the target. Seems obvious no? You can see it it's in your Line of Sight.

We don't cancel mid-cast either. There's a check on-cast and on-completion. Channels check each tick.

[Vayra]

Most MMOs don't cancel casts mid-cast if someone temporarily goes out of LoS. And this game didn't either on live, FYI. As for why flagpoles should be different from see-through fences? They shouldn't. If you can see through it you should have LoS on the target. Seems obvious no? You can see it it's in your Line of Sight.

We don't cancel mid-cast either. There's a check on-cast and on-completion. Channels check each tick.

Are you sure, I'm pretty sure at least some longer spells (like Doombolt) do cancel if target goes behind cover midway. I don't have good recording equipment or I'd record it. I've noticed it in some cases where it makes sense (target runs behind a wall), but also when they just pass behind the flag. I''ll see if I can get some recording software set up and get a video of it.

edit: just realized I still have OBS installed, so can get video. Just need to find someone with an order character to test with.

[Vayra]

OK, tested it now on the middle flag in Caledor. Had to use my phone as OBS kept crashing when I tried to record. When casting Fireball with a BW and the target runs behind the flag it is cancelled. See below video for proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX_CZDKMUI0

[Bladeh]

Not posted on these forums for a very long time as I stopped playing the game due to its many imperfections at the time, understandbly... how ever I have returned to the game and it's in a better position than where it was due to posts like this.

I come from Live as playing a Sorc for years as Guild Leader, Warband Leader and Group leader and then on here and I can say that this was never a thing on Live and the arguement that its a balance thing just does not hold, many scenarios benefit Melee and the general direction the GMS have taken has been to love up the Melee classes (I left after the god awful disrupt meta) fair play but please fix game play like this as it is a nerf on any Ranged DPS or Healers and as Wargrimnir has just pointed out there is meant to be a Check at Cast and a Check at end, this is not working as intended and cast is being stopped and should therefore be fixed.

Most MMOs don't cancel casts mid-cast if someone temporarily goes out of LoS. And this game didn't either on live, FYI. As for why flagpoles should be different from see-through fences? They shouldn't. If you can see through it you should have LoS on the target. Seems obvious no? You can see it it's in your Line of Sight.

We don't cancel mid-cast either. There's a check on-cast and on-completion. Channels check each tick.

[wargrimnir]

OK, tested it now on the middle flag in Caledor. Had to use my phone as OBS kept crashing when I tried to record. When casting Fireball with a BW and the target runs behind the flag it is cancelled. See below video for proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX_CZDKMUI0

Okay, put it on the bugtracker and we can flag a dev to work on it maybe.

[Fey]

Scenario flags are definitely annoying. When someone actively uses the flag to break Los that's one thing. However what's infinitely more annoying is the SnB tank strafing and walking backwards circles around the flag. The Los flag strat works even when people aren't attempting to do it.

Long cast times are not forgiving in RoR, flags make it even more so. I don't feel strongly on this one, but it does feel cheap exploiting flag Los. Taking a BO is supposed to be risky and a pole wouldn't reasonably provide anything actual cover.