[Shadow Warrior] - Ranged Proposal

[Arthem]

Another idea is let the effects from stance linger for 5 secs after you change stance.

[NSKaneda]

I keep on wondering: how are you going to mirror these changes to rSH?

[wargrimnir]

I keep on wondering: how are you going to mirror these changes to rSH?

I would hope most of the changes we make aren't direct mirrors. The salt must flow when one thing is slightly different from another.

[Ekundu01]

I keep on wondering: how are you going to mirror these changes to rSH?

I would hope most of the changes we make aren't direct mirrors. The salt must flow when one thing is slightly different from another.

Maybe it is time to get rid of mirroring all together and make each class unique, it would provide salt for years

[NSKaneda]

I keep on wondering: how are you going to mirror these changes to rSH?

I would hope most of the changes we make aren't direct mirrors. The salt must flow when one thing is slightly different from another.

Aye, that's the flavour of WAR. However what I see in these proposed changes are direct mirrors of Quick Shootin' skills and tactics. And while I'm all for extending range on this path and dropping Shootin' wiff da wind tactic altogether I see no point in changing Split Arrows / Splinterin' Arrerz tactic - it's useful for fester bomb but run'n'shoot is on top when it comes to ST dmg and I would really, really hate changing the skill into mediocre erzatz of aoe. There's a reason behind this tactic, least of all is the fact that sometimes one does not want to be detected too early.

Smoldering Arrows / Sharpened Arrerz - sure, let's make inevitable doom out of this skill, my 100% support on this one.

Stances... I'm not even going to delve into "let the effects linger" case - magi, engineers, WLs and Maras would love it. And having two squig bonuses for the duration of one burst rotation.. Yeah, gimme that OP mechanic! Seriously though: 15% range increase combined with invader and other sets +range perk would make engineers range turrets bleed oil with envy. Initiative change was talked about previously on the topic.

Skirmish stance +50 range and tactic drop - sounds all fine and dandy, but how to mirror it on SH, prey tell? Our squigs are much, much more vulnerable than unremovable SW stance. Killing said squig would result in suddenly dropping from long range to almost melee range. And I for one do not want to play mdps on range class - got choppa, mara and tanks for that.. Of course you could extend range on all skills from that tree making it into Big Shootin' / Scout duplicate and dropping aforementioned range extender tactic. Giving the same perk to magi / engie is rather obvious.

Rain of steel / Lots of shootin' - 2190 over 10s / 2400 dmg to targets 20ft from marker. Hail of doom does 3k dmg - I agree that dmg on speccable morale is too low to spend points on getting something subpar to default m4.

Steady Aim / Hunters Fervor / VoN - I'm all for that. Please give the same buffs to Squig Frenzy (and make SF affect both hunta and squig). I'm sure Maras would love buff to Ferocious Assault as well. And I'm sure balance team would not forget about Black Orks Get 'Em skill, right?

Whirling Pin - squig Kaboom! does have delay. And you cannot kaboom and Sticky Squigs (which has animation delay as well) away at the same time anymore: there's this lil' kick implemented in RoR sometime ago that you will not punt yourself away from targets with snare immunity. I would love 20ft self-punt increase and snare removal. Why not

Flame Arrow / Explodin' Arrerz - what is it with aoe bombs >_< 2s cast time on this important utility skill would make it like Poison Arrer - useful in sieges, obsolete on the battlefield. Instadmg to everyone around like BWs / Sorcs? But why? For that glorious morale bombing groups and encounters lasting 10 seconds?

Projectile speed - you have my support on this. Animation delay and dmg microlag caused by it is irritating and I'd love to see it fixed.

[Manatikik]

I keep on wondering: how are you going to mirror these changes to rSH?

I would hope most of the changes we make aren't direct mirrors. The salt must flow when one thing is slightly different from another.

Aye, that's the flavour of WAR. However what I see in these proposed changes are direct mirrors of Quick Shootin' skills and tactics. And while I'm all for extending range on this path and dropping Shootin' wiff da wind tactic altogether I see no point in changing Split Arrows / Splinterin' Arrerz tactic - it's useful for fester bomb but run'n'shoot is on top when it comes to ST dmg and I would really, really hate changing the skill into mediocre erzatz of aoe. There's a reason behind this tactic, least of all is the fact that sometimes one does not want to be detected too early.

Smoldering Arrows / Sharpened Arrerz - sure, let's make inevitable doom out of this skill, my 100% support on this one.

Stances... I'm not even going to delve into "let the effects linger" case - magi, engineers, WLs and Maras would love it. And having two squig bonuses for the duration of one burst rotation.. Yeah, gimme that OP mechanic! Seriously though: 15% range increase combined with invader and other sets +range perk would make engineers range turrets bleed oil with envy. Initiative change was talked about previously on the topic.

Skirmish stance +50 range and tactic drop - sounds all fine and dandy, but how to mirror it on SH, prey tell? Our squigs are much, much more vulnerable than unremovable SW stance. Killing said squig would result in suddenly dropping from long range to almost melee range. And I for one do not want to play mdps on range class - got choppa, mara and tanks for that.. Of course you could extend range on all skills from that tree making it into Big Shootin' / Scout duplicate and dropping aforementioned range extender tactic. Giving the same perk to magi / engie is rather obvious.

Rain of steel / Lots of shootin' - 2190 over 10s / 2400 dmg to targets 20ft from marker. Hail of doom does 3k dmg - I agree that dmg on speccable morale is too low to spend points on getting something subpar to default m4.

Steady Aim / Hunters Fervor / VoN - I'm all for that. Please give the same buffs to Squig Frenzy (and make SF affect both hunta and squig). I'm sure Maras would love buff to Ferocious Assault as well. And I'm sure balance team would not forget about Black Orks Get 'Em skill, right?

Whirling Pin - squig Kaboom! does have delay. And you cannot kaboom and Sticky Squigs away at the same time anymore. There's also this lil' kick implemented in RoR sometime ago that you will not punt yourself away from targets with snare immunity. I would love 20ft self-punt increase and snare removal. Why not

Flame Arrow / Explodin' Arrerz - what is it with aoe bombs >_< 2s cast time on this important utility skill would make it like Poison Arrer - useful in sieges, obsolete on the battlefield. Instadmg to everyone around like BWs / Sorcs? But why? For that glorious morale bombing groups and encounters lasting 10 seconds?

Projectile speed - you have my support on this. Animation delay and dmg microlag caused by it is irritating and I'd love to see it fixed.

A lot of the changes are over the top. Also due to the mechanic difference some changes don’t make sense for both classes (ie SH can string together more natural and better rotations and they can get a ranged bonus on all of their Quick Shootin abilities). I think a lot of these changes don’t address overall balance issues and don’t get down to the root problems of the ranged specs. For example all the tool tips are lower naturally due to UF was base and supposed to offset this by giving you stretches of over the top damage; this was balanced in Engi naturally with the new turret mechanics, ASW got new merc solider, and MSH has TA so you don’t feel it as much in those specs (among other factors) so they play better.

Other issues that address SW that don’t address SH is morale game. Removing Outrider Patrol and giving it to sorc really neutered (even further) SW M2 game and hurt their (then future now present) City presence all together (since LS nerf plus ES change makes your ranged aoe spec a ‘Fun Snap’ spec as my guild now calls it) where it hurts ranged SH more due to self-pump and Big Shootin M4 giving rSH in a fine spot if they adjust the ES + STY back to what it was.

So, essentially, rSH and SW need similar AoE changes but different ST ranged changes.

[NSKaneda]

Other issues that address SW that don’t address SH is morale game. Removing Outrider Patrol and giving it to sorc really neutered (even further) SW M2 game and hurt their (then future now present) City presence all together (since LS nerf plus ES change makes your ranged aoe spec a ‘Fun Snap’ spec as my guild now calls it) where it hurts ranged SH more due to self-pump and Big Shootin M4 giving rSH in a fine spot if they adjust the ES + STY back to what it was.

M2 was removed on SH as well... Need to build up to m3 now for burst (which SWs are lacking, I admit).

[Manatikik]

Other issues that address SW that don’t address SH is morale game. Removing Outrider Patrol and giving it to sorc really neutered (even further) SW M2 game and hurt their (then future now present) City presence all together (since LS nerf plus ES change makes your ranged aoe spec a ‘Fun Snap’ spec as my guild now calls it) where it hurts ranged SH more due to self-pump and Big Shootin M4 giving rSH in a fine spot if they adjust the ES + STY back to what it was.

M2 was removed on SH as well... Need to build up to m3 now for burst (which SWs are lacking, I admit).

Yes their shared M2 was removed but further than that their other M2 was also removed and given to sorc (for some unknown reason); also SH have a current spot in WB with MSH which is super good whereas SW is inarguably the worst class in the game in a WB, and it isn’t even close.

[teiloh]

The SH is in general a much stronger class than SW and this is true of rSH vs rSW. It'll be hard to justify mirroring some but not all changes over.

[saupreusse]

Other issues that address SW that don’t address SH is morale game. Removing Outrider Patrol and giving it to sorc really neutered (even further) SW M2 game and hurt their (then future now present) City presence all together (since LS nerf plus ES change makes your ranged aoe spec a ‘Fun Snap’ spec as my guild now calls it) where it hurts ranged SH more due to self-pump and Big Shootin M4 giving rSH in a fine spot if they adjust the ES + STY back to what it was.

M2 was removed on SH as well... Need to build up to m3 now for burst (which SWs are lacking, I admit).

Yes their shared M2 was removed but further than that their other M2 was also removed and given to sorc (for some unknown reason); also SH have a current spot in WB with MSH which is super good whereas SW is inarguably the worst class in the game in a WB, and it isn’t even close.

Dude pls give ideas what to change. I got a lot of feedbad by now and guess i now see where i was going over the top / in the weong direction. Is your suggestion to increase all tooltips alltogether for squig and sw and give them back a notable m2? I agree that a good m2 would help. I didnt know that being able to mirror it was so important given that the melee specs of these classes are completely different aswell.