[Shadow Warrior] - Ranged Proposal

[Manatikik]

M2 was removed on SH as well... Need to build up to m3 now for burst (which SWs are lacking, I admit).

Yes their shared M2 was removed but further than that their other M2 was also removed and given to sorc (for some unknown reason); also SH have a current spot in WB with MSH which is super good whereas SW is inarguably the worst class in the game in a WB, and it isn’t even close.

Dude pls give ideas what to change. I got a lot of feedbad by now and guess i now see where i was going over the top / in the weong direction. Is your suggestion to increase all tooltips alltogether for squig and sw and give them back a notable m2? I agree that a good m2 would help. I didnt know that being able to mirror it was so important given that the melee specs of these classes are completely different aswell.

I've posted tons of proposals in the balance forum. Theres a lot of options to fix things. Easiest one is to fix es/la; revert hd position nerf, eye shot core again, return outrider patrol, etc etc. Theres a lot of small fixes that increase SW power by tons.

[Darks63]

Even something as small as making the 7 point Skrim/quick tactic give at 25-50% crit amo could make all the difference since it is the 13 pointer in assault that really sets the assault spec above the other 2 specs damage wise.

[ekalime]

Oh the things that could be said after having spent ~4 years on live playing a SW... Mythic's nerf of split arrows was mind numbing... I endorse this thread.

[NSKaneda]

I didnt know that being able to mirror it was so important given that the melee specs of these classes are completely different aswell.

Not everyone wants to play mSH or Assault SW
Given that both classes are very gear dependent and need more than decent WS to make a dent in enemy on top of crit and BS... I'd say reverting changes to m2 and buffing m4 would be a good start to make both classes in their range spec(s) more casual friendly.
There's also a question of gear-lvl balancing - SHs and SWs perform very differently depending on the set they are wearing - wet noodle archery in entry level T4 becomes more deadly as armour sets progress.

Making both classes (sorry, but you cannot change rSW and leave rSH out of it since they share 90% of skills in their range trees) into AOE will not solve it - they simply were not designed for it outside of fester bomb build - it's like trying to make a slayer out of Witch Hunter. Buffing their range, crit or pure dmg modifier might be a way to go here - both classes have lots of utility to effectively turn enemy range AOE down.

[Arthem]

In all seriousness what needs to happen is certain things just be reverted / fixed. This should be stage 1. Stage 2 if deem necessary can perhaps buff or change things.

Stage 1 revert / fix proposal:
Expert skirm - replace this tactic and call it something new. It will now lower the cast time by half of all skirmish / quick shootin abilities.

Ambush - Replaced with old M2 Outrider Patrol. Direct damage in a cone infront of you.

Shadow Sting / Rotten arrer - moved from 9 points to 6 points like it was on live. Move Runaway and Barrage to 9 points.

Eye shot - Move back to core, put Flanking shot back to 13 points.

Stage 2 buffs / changes:
Steady Aim -
Hunter's Fervor -
Splinterin arrows proposal 1 - skirmish abilities have a 25% increase critical damage. Swap it to 7 points. Keen arrowheads to 3 points.
Splinterin arrows proposal 2 - cause a bleeding effect on DD skirmish abilities with a chance to deal dmg over time.
WB utility -

[saupreusse]

I will try to update the main post according to what i was able to get out of this and also consider sh aswell. (even though this makes it a lot harder)

[adapter]

How about you propose some buffes to range squig herder too? or you are just biased all the way?

Range Squig Herder experiences same discrimination from groups and warbands just as RSW...also the same problem with the Melee spec overshadowing the Range Spec, so this is an issue with both careers that use Bow and Arrows, we need reworks so we can shoot more stuff!

...by the way, that is a cool looking format you used to proposed these changes.

[NSKaneda]

I will try to update the main post according to what i was able to get out of this and also consider sh aswell. (even though this makes it a lot harder)

Nobody said balancing is easy
Cheers!

[normanis]

i have played sw and i agree with proposal.
1. most players walk around in very huge armor resistence , so extra weaponskill is welcome
2. skirmish stance give + x tougness +5 crit, +50 range should be good trade off ( instincitve aim anyaway reduces tougness if u whant bypass armor )
3. enginers got armor piercing rounds
4. festered arrow for real hit like **** damage and are easy healable ( 200 damage lol any destro in t4 heal more in sec than 200hps) its like giving away free morale ( destro build it faster)
5. splited arrows should be buffed
6. adding armor bypass in skirmish tree is good idea byt than sw have 2 armor bypass , if splitarrows bypass armor or make tham spiritual maby its make better damage. u anyway need 1sec cast for it
p.s well bright wizard anyway has more aoe tools than sw or wl (even if this threads changes will be applied). and has more burst (they are realy overpowered, no wonder sorc got also morale 2 from bw). this post point in my opinion is , magic users is far better than thos who strugle bypasising enemy armor. most ppl outside wb or in pug wb run with 25-30% resistences - easy pray for magicians. ( sorc/bw can bypas resistences for solo kill and magus bypass in aor resistences to 0 , its like your resistences on that tipe dont exists, and most funny is harder hiting abilities realy u need bypass those resistences.) so my point is adding some extra stuff for psyhic dps bypass enemy armor is good idea.
ps.s mara has pierce defences ( some abilities in mutation bypass 50% armor)

[Foofmonger]

I'm not opposed to ranged SW/SH getting buffs, just want to point out that I don't think "class overhauls" are a good idea. Small iterative balance changes that can be tested are preferable.

I would suggest putting your balance suggestion into two major categorizations:

1. MVP changes. You need to decide on "what are the most important changes", and what takes priority. The thought that you'd get all these changes at once is not realistic, so what changes should come first (1 or 2)?
2. Once you decide on what is first, then plot the rest of the changes out in importance, what are the next 1-2, and so on and so forth.

As this is how balance is actually done, I would suggest helping to guide the discussion and the developers in a more realistic fashion.