Rampage rebalancing.

[Acidic]

I agree that rampage in its current form gives too much.
Current form of having such high uptime (especially where cd reduction) giving bypass all block and parry is just wrong and has no down side (uptime negates rage cost penalty)
My simple formula buff benefit (damage done / stat buff) should be balanced , and for the most they are.
Just look at the set / rr skills balance of cost for attributes. When looking at most abilities this balance is to the main ok except RAMPAGE , gives bypass all vs tanks that is equivelent to 60RR point and 1/4 of gear stats and depending on trees speced 10-15 spec points. This is just over the top

[ravezaar]

You nerf Rampage u basicly kill the Slayer as a Class. A Melee debuff that does only Physical dmg, has no real hard hitting skills outside 2-H (none use that) and has no Armor debuff. If u then reduce effect or duration of Rampage the Class becomes unplayable, to understand this u actually have to ahve some Experience in playing a Slayer.

I have 12y of that what do u have ?

- RoR devs already broke Faction balance when they moved Shatter Limbs (order unique skill) to SH
- Salyer does ONLY physical dmg so ALOT is mitigated compared to Mara,WL,WH,WE who can either armor debuff or Ignore Armor.
- Slayer skills does less dmg then Choppas, but due to Rampage we land more hits. if u take away that u need to increase our base dmg on skills for the balance to work

Things like this u have to consider before u nerf a class unique skill like Rampage (now the last one we have) before Devs gives that to Destro aswell

Faction balance was better on Live !!

[Stophy22]

I agree with foof, op, and omegus. I believe rampage is up too long and should be situational.

It should be a, "oh **** he used M1. -clicks Rampage-." Kinda deal. I don't know the potential to save the 2handed tree by making it a 2hand only ability but I kinda like this idea. Rampage seems like a strong enough tool to inspire the use of a widely considered, "lesser" is the term ill use, way to play slayers (and choppas) that will probably be my only 2 cents here but I'll elaborate a little more because I'm waiting around for forts n citys.... I VEHEMENTLY disagree with the afore mentioned statement.

Spoiler:

You cannot say that, "destro got all tha Ayy O E dps classes" When BW's and Engi's **** paint the floor and sky with fire (yes we are looking at you, stacking rain of fire.) And by removing rampage completely destroys slayer as an AOE class than how is choppa doing it? GTDC is enough for lack of rampage to be a balanced aoe class? Unlikely man. Choppas got high dps before this **** was widely complained about.

Also with including context from the other thread, Yeah GTDC shouldn't be choppas highest DPS ability. It's utility, so it shouldn't be spam GTDC and max charts, but like foof someone with more zerker knowledge could be used here, I'm not sure if there is more too it than that, and I can't propose anything worth anyones time without proper education. Slayer and choppa are probably my least classes of expertise BUT I agree with the idea of a proposal given by foof. The balance scale isn't so incredibly tilted in one direction that only this needs to be changed and nothing else. That often leaves the ROR community feeling like they've been cheated in some way and possible unjust actions. Remember classes share archetypes. BW's and Sorcs, Engi's and Magus, Choppas and slayers.

And there has been cases where things are a little ridiculous. Bugmans barrel was if I dare say, over preforming. (a non healer class outhealing most healers is what I would consider over preforming. for the record) But it's like most people said, I hardly say Choppa is the one the scale is tipping in favor in...

Little side note, I played Order's side recently, to my disdain, and I could not understand why people are upset with GTDC. It's like one of the biggest things I see on the complaint list but out of the big bois I don't see how it even compares I wasn't even phased by this **** when I was playing. Maybe my opinions biased playing mainly destro but I try to look from the outside in, most the time. Could go on about other issues but to not start random tangents ill refrain.

[Harrwin]

Maras aoe damage is laughable. BW does more damage in aoe than sorc, im not even sure how you got to sorc doing more than BW, its ridiculous. Lets see: funnel power, spreading flames, backdraft, wildfire, bigger aoe radius.(gon is not taken by any serious sorc in actual premade v premade play, it is simply dispelled or other nonsense you listed). And you actualle compare the damage a slayer can put out against a choppa? Are we playing the same game? The only reall discusion order had versus destro was destro had superior moral drain. We dont have that anymore, congrats.

[Foofmonger]

If a Slayer is causing you much damage as a tank, especially a chosen, you are doing it wrong sad to inform you.

Physical damage even with 50% armor bypass will still bounce off you with decent toughness when coming from AoE Slayer. I suppose you could make an argument for 6v6 but if those big mean Order premades are killing targeting your tanks as a means of winning 6v6 then again, something is very wrong with your grp. And yes Invader gear is helpful in bypassing more armor but few ppl have it and even then, physical damage just isn't that powerful against armor stacked tanks with decent toughness and a crap ton of wounds. Guard damage at that point, even when undefendable, just isn't enough to counter incoming heals.

There is no reason with Squig Pounce and choppa pull that Slayers should be free to kill your tanks at leisure while you sit there and dont heal I guess.

*** As I have said before, given Slayer's non-existent mobility and not having a pull, Rampage is balanced. SO I guess I would balance it by leaving it as is, have a nice day.

You missed the context of the post which I tried to respond to in my first reply.

This is in the context of a GTDC nerf. If GTDC were to be nerfed as per Skalds suggestions (which I think you agree with on a macro level based on your post), so that's why we are discussing Rampage changes, within the context of also changing GTDC.

Nerfing rampage without nerfing GTDC would be dumb and not a good way to balance Choppas and Slayers.

[Sofong]

slayers problem is, the good ones being really op, they know how powerful they are, but the average ones struggle and die easily. if slayer got nerf, the average slayer population will have a even harder time.

[Foofmonger]

You nerf Rampage u basicly kill the Slayer as a Class. A Melee debuff that does only Physical dmg, has no real hard hitting skills outside 2-H (none use that) and has no Armor debuff. If u then reduce effect or duration of Rampage the Class becomes unplayable, to understand this u actually have to ahve some Experience in playing a Slayer.

I have 12y of that what do u have ?

- RoR devs already broke Faction balance when they moved Shatter Limbs (order unique skill) to SH
- Salyer does ONLY physical dmg so ALOT is mitigated compared to Mara,WL,WH,WE who can either armor debuff or Ignore Armor.
- Slayer skills does less dmg then Choppas, but due to Rampage we land more hits. if u take away that u need to increase our base dmg on skills for the balance to work

Things like this u have to consider before u nerf a class unique skill like Rampage (now the last one we have) before Devs gives that to Destro aswell

Faction balance was better on Live !!

This is the exact same argument Choppa players try to make when people start discussing GTDC nerfs. We don't move forward as a community without being reasonable, and if you want Destro nerfs you need to understand that you will also be getting nerfed, that's how balance works.

Also you know, you can just get your team to armor debuff for you, did you forget you have a 50% boost damage that WL/Mara/WH/WE doesn't get? I've seen Slayer players making this argument for 12 years and it's as bad today as it was in 2008. If you actually think Slayers/Choppas dont do by far the best MDPS damage in this game (and yea you aren't 100% self sufficient, nobody is), then you are crazy.

Also, nobody is saying "Delete Rampage", as a serious item of discussion. Nobody wants to "take it away from you", we are just discussing how to balance GTDC and Rampage as both of these abilities cause some issues with their currently application that the other realm does not have access to. This is what we call a "parity problem", in that order doesn't have something similar to GTDC, and destro doesn't have something similar to Rampage, so they are extremely hard to balance on a macro level. Many Order players are calling for GTDC nerfs, and that's fine and a good discussion to have, but without discussing Rampage in that context it's not balance, it's shameless order bias.

[Skald]

I think in both this, and the topic about GtdC topic, people overact a bit when they claim these two nerfs would "kill" the ability.

They'd definitely make them less powerful, yes, but not outright render them obsolete, as some people seem to suggest.

If players have to carefully weigh in when to use an ability (while it still retains much of its power), instead of just using it every time it's off cooldown, it's only a good thing in my book.

Numbers are, of course, a point of debate, but I think that the game would be in a more healthy place with those two "worst offenders" toned down a bit.

[teiloh]

Maras aoe damage is laughable. BW does more damage in aoe than sorc, im not even sure how you got to sorc doing more than BW, its ridiculous. Lets see: funnel power, spreading flames, backdraft, wildfire, bigger aoe radius.(gon is not taken by any serious sorc in actual premade v premade play, it is simply dispelled or other nonsense you listed). And you actualle compare the damage a slayer can put out against a choppa? Are we playing the same game? The only reall discusion order had versus destro was destro had superior moral drain. We dont have that anymore, congrats.

You clearly have very little grasp on game mechanics. Premade vs premade? Are you still talking about AOE here? What BW uses spreading flames and backdraft (aka free immunity) in premade vs premade? A larger AOE radius takes a tactic slot btw and you can't stack ROFs. Let me know the next time you see a bomb Wizard using Backdraft because I haven't seen the ability used more than 1 or 2 times in all my time here.

Only advantage Destro had was better morale drain? LOL

How about morale builders? Shaman instant 5,400 split with group vs. AM 250 on one target for x3 in Isha. WL 10/s requiring pet vs. SH 66 per second and no penalty. Zealot/Chosen/BOrc and ... well, literally nothing.

Then there's heal debuffs, speed increase, AOE DPS, resist debuffs, CD increasers, CD reducers, pulls, knockbacks, knockdowns. Sorry, it's clear your game knowledge/system mastery is extremely low.

[Detangler]

lets see, we have "rampage isn't that OP cause tanks still absorb tons of damage, and you shouldnt be hitting them anyway" and ALSO "if you nerf rampage, the slayer class becomes unplayable."

WHICH IS IT?

Also, "but if you use rampage you drop your rage." Aaaaand 5 seconds later you're back in the yellow with 15 seconds of undefendable damage left. Lots of downsides to that mechanic, sure sure.

Has anyone here defending rampage actually played a defensive tank vs. 3+ slayers in a warband situation? You cant block the damage, you can't block guard on your squishy friend, and your lifebar just drops. Invader gear makes this even worse....